The S&P500 is down around 3.50% right now with NASDAQ being off almost 5%.
The Yahoo Finance headline is “Why the Explosive Stock Market Rally is Crumbling”. What baloney that headline is–why is a 1 day move lower a cause for the use of ‘crumbling’ in a headline. I think that most everyone is somewhat welcoming of a move lower–I know I am.
On the other hand when I checked my accounts they were almost perfectly flat–some lower, some higher, but overall almost no movement. No bargains are being created in preferred stocks and baby bonds based on this common stock movement–this is normal. If common shares move down 1000 points or more in a day–with maybe consecutive days down we might see small bargains created in income issues–moves like this create bargains in income issues when folks decide to ‘throw the baby out with the bath water’ and that isn’t the case now.
I will continue to watch for bargains in quality income issues–but I will not be holding my breath waiting on a piddling 3-5% move lower in common stocks with interest rates on the 10 year at .62%.
Very pertinent point, AZBob. I think you’re looking at it from the same angle.
Tim-
You mention being almost flat for the week– same here, down 2/10 of a % on a rather ugly week for the markets.
Ready with 46% cash & in cash parking spot. Need that next drop or two.
woody & tex the 2nd. most interesting prefferred trade! I had a very similar situation several year ago unfortunately, I use a full service broker he entered a limit order at a even $ amount the issue always trades very low volume. got down a day or two later to the “number” and filled for some else. I did some investigating and it filled at a tenth of a cent higher than my bid. I called my broker said it looked like someone “was front running me” and asked him to always enter a slightly higher bid price next time to avoid if we could? he said it wasn’t there’ policy to deal in fractional cents. not calling anyone out but initials are E. J. not my only complaint
Well Grid the people who started this bank are long gone having been set up in 1858. But it made it through the railroad panic and depression of 1873 the 1929 and the latest. Reading a history of the company they seem to be buying small regional or local banks during times of stress.
This will add a little balance to my low paying CNIG which I hope can keep increasing its dividend.
The NEE-I and IPLDP are doing good and I am ok with SCE-PL but may try to lower my cost basis on that one so I am in my happy place.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-market-and-the-economy-actually-arent-disconnected-114621662.html
A good column by Andy Serwer today on Yahoo Finance re the state of the stock market as if anyone can discern it if there is such a thing.
My guess is that the seller had an ‘all or none’ restriction on his offer , which would pass over any bids that didn’t completely fill his order. Folks use ‘all or none’ to avoid getting partial fills, but in this instance they missed out getting your odd lot bid at a higher price.
thanks for everyone’s response. I have a call into my broker. i haven’t
received a call back yet but i’m really not expecting very much from them
anyway. Happy Labor Day to everyone and stay safe this weekend.
The 0.0001 fills are actually not dark pools, they’re the result of a wholesaler filling the order out of inventory vs accessing the public market.
For example, an investor sends an order to sell FIISO at 130.00 and the best bid is 132.00. Their broker offers zero commission trades. The broker doesn’t actually send this order to the market, they sell the flow (look up payment for order flow) to a market maker (colloquial, also called internalizer, wholesaler etc think citadel, virtu, 2 sigma etc) The buyer of the order looks at the market and can either buy the shares at a better price than the displayed bid (hence 132.0001) with the intent of being able to sell it at a better price or can decide its odds of selling higher are slim so will just send it to the market at 132.
On a side note, OTC market is very different than listed market (nyse,bats et al) The rules on order protection, firm quotes, best ex routing don’t apply.
MCG Said: “The 0.0001 fills are actually not dark pools, they’re the result of a wholesaler filling the order out of inventory vs accessing the public market.”
MCG, I agree with your explanation that the fills are liekly coming from the internalizer that received the sell order. It Citadel for example filled the order, it would be from their dark pool. Citadel, Virtu, Two Sigma all have dark pools. I guess the distinction is whether there was a sitting order at a dark pool, as opposed to the internalizer creating the buy order when they received the sell order from the brokerage.
Also, I am not aware of any lit exchange or ATS that does sub penny trades. Do you know of any?
The bottom line for preferred investors is the same regardless of the exact microstructure routing these orders take. When your order is showing as the NBBO (National Best Bid and Offer), there is a good chance there is another order that will step in front of you and be filled first.
In this case, there is nothing the buyer with the 132.00 could have done differently to get filled. If the seller placed his order at a brokerage that used an internalizer, they would have been able to jump in front of any order at any buy price you used if it suited their interest. Even if you placed your buy order on a dark pool at a higher price, say 132.01, it would likely not have been filled if the NBBO bid was 132.00. The internalizer would have jumped in front with his 132.0001 buy order.
>I guess the distinction is whether there was a sitting order at a dark pool, as opposed to the internalizer creating the buy order when they received the sell order from the brokerage.
I don’t think this is the distinction. Internalized orders don’t transit the dark pool, they just get filled out of inventory directly. The dark pool is for transacting agency orders vs principal.
>Also, I am not aware of any lit exchange or ATS that does sub penny trades. Do you know of any?
All lit exchanges (aside from maybe NYSE, don’t recall off hand) allow transactions at the sub-penny level, usually at the mid (132.005 for example).
>In this case, there is nothing the buyer with the 132.00 could have done differently to get filled.
Yes, unfortunately this is the case. The liquidity provider is not only the disadvantaged participant but also the one most likely to get adversely selected.
Happens all the time on “pink sheet” or “billboard” over the counter stocks. I used to call it the Wild West of trading. You can argue with the broker if you want, but you won’t get any satisfaction. Not to mention your bid was for less than 100 shares, which will not receive the same attention as round lots.
For a more egregious trade, take a look at CKNQP…it traded 200 shares at 102.25 yesterday….even though the bid never dropped below 104.25. I can’t explain that one.