Illiquid Securities

On this page folks should comment and write about illiquid securities–preferreds and baby bonds. By Illiquid I am talking about those issues that seldom trade–or only trade in very small volumes.

We have a lot of discussion on the site about these types of securities–normally $50 and $100/shares issues and the commenting gets scattered about–by using this page we can keep this topic more centralized.

A caution to all investors, but in particular those will little experience in illiquid securities. Tight limits must be used on all of these securities–if you don’t use limits you will butchered. Also while some of these issues have been outstanding for more than 50 years they can still be called–it happens and if you overpay (pay more than liquidation price) you may be setting yourself up for a loss. Always do your own due diligence–always double check the facts–everyone makes errors (certainly I do) and you need to know the facts.

Investors should know that illiquid securities will drop like a rock if there is a large move higher in interest rates. One of my current and long time holdings has been a $50/share issue from CEF Tricontinental (TY-P or TY-) with a 5% coupon–very high quality. This issue is now trading around $56, but in its life (issued in 1963) it has traded as low at $18/share–so there should be no doubt they can move sharply.

400 thoughts on “Illiquid Securities”

  1. HAWEL, Hawaii Electric $20 face 5% coupon, immediately callable @ $21, hit an 8 year low on 200 shares @ 19.29 today. Not sure if any more are available at that price or not. Down 4.61 from previous close of 23.90 on 5/2. That is a 19.3% drop. . .

    We have no positions and/or orders in any account.

  2. GMLPF made the highlight reel today. Every since it went to the “expert market” related to the Rule 15c2-11, it has shown increased volatility, like many others that went there also. Today it closed @ 22.50, but had a 400 share trade @ 19.00. Last year on III, some speculated it would be called on its first call date of 10/31/22, 6 months from now. I don’t follow the company close enough to have an opinion, but if it were called, obviously it would be a home run.

    The reason I bring this up is that it is buyable on some platforms as others have reported. I am not sure why this expert markets issue is buyable and others are not. If you are interested, your broker might let you buy it. . .

      1. Not allowed on eTrade either:

        “Opening transactions in Pink No Information, Grey Market and Expert Market securities are not permitted due to the inherent risk associated with these products.”

        Thanks for the safety net eTrade…

  3. Old PFX update. Landlord and I discussion got my curiosity going as I know several here own the old PFX (Phoenix Life now renamed Nassau Companies of NY). I have owned it for years and just collect the 10% plus coupon quarterly interest payment and dont really follow it being its private. But…here is some good news as AM Best a few months ago (AM Best is an insurance co. rater) gave it a credit upgrade…It got a double notch positive bump I see.
    Nassau Companies of New York—
    — to “bb” (Fair) from “b+” (Marginal) on $300 million 7.45% senior unsecured notes, due 2032
    Every since I purchased it years ago, its been hold until 2032 maturity, or bust, or untimely death whichever comes first.’s-Insurance-Subsidiaries
    Looks like its last trade was $18.15 yesterday which puts it at a present 10.26% yield. Its YTM of 2032 is considerably higher, but Im not bothering to do the math. I just want my next payment on time again in July. And judging by credit upgrade this seems to be a reasonable outcome.

  4. Fidelity has restricted NEWEN (6%), one of the few noncallable Ute preferreds. The only explanation I can get is that as part of its consideration to remove its trading restrictions on fixed to floating preferreds, it decided to restrict any preferred for which it could not locate a prospectus! NEWEN’s parent is Nation Grid (NGG), and the issue is decades old. NGG covers NEWEN in its 8K. When you look at the detail on Fid’s website for this issue, you find narrative about “Novagold Resources” in the “Company Profile.” My efforts to get this rectified fell flat. Anyone have more info about this and suggestions for getting the restriction removed. I’ve written Fidelity and, without success, tried to get to someone in its Compliance Dept.

    1. O – This probably won’t help much but maybe you can convince Fido that this could be considered the prospectus for the issue…They’ll probably then come up with some other excuse anyway, but See Article I on It mentions that N/C 6% specifically and then goes on with language very similar to a prospectus that would cover not only that preferred but another as well…… It’s grasping at straws, but maybe it’ll help. Sorry I don’t see any page numbers but the Article is easy to find……

      1. Thanks 2White. I’ll see if Fid will accept this…IF I can speak with anyone empowered to do something (unlikely). I’ll write to them again, if necessary.

    2. Oldman, Just thought of you. I just bought 100 of NEWEN today at $108. Used to buy and flip in the 120s to 140 range a while back. $108 though not inspiring in yield at 5.56% is running around about over decade pricing low. Plus it was one last chance to spit in the eye of Vanguard, because they are shutting down all OTC trading real soon.

      1. As usual Grid, Nice Buy! Fidelity still restricting NEWEN purchase. Probably going to move my trading elsewhere. Last I looked, NEWEN ask is back up to $127.70. Opportunity lost for the rest of us!

        1. Oldman, I dont have a Fidelity account but occassionally I get preferred info from their quote site. And for many issues like lets take UEPEN as an example, they have the call date and issue dates and such there.

          Now notice they dont have anything on NEWEN, thus showing why they are balking on trading.

          $127 IMO is not serious offer to sell. But with a tradeable float under 10k shares and most institutionalized, your going to get that often. And then these can dry up where buyers lose interest also from lack of trading opportunites.

          1. Can you challenge Fidelity to update NEWEN, by showing them where to look?
            Not sure If moody’s or S&P have a rating for it, but some of the rest of the information is available.

            1. Thanks Justin. Already sent them the 25 year old data on the old NEWEN info (from New England Power Co.) as well as several links to 8ks, etc., most recently from National Grid, the parent–some of whose filings reference the issue and provide some detail. Fidelity shows this as a “fixed to floating” and it’s not. As previously mentioned, when you look at the NEWEN detail on the Fid website, under “Company Profile” they show info for Novagold Resources, which has nothing to do with NEWEN. It will not matter what I provide unless someone internally decides to own the problem and fix it. It’s so minor, that my chances of accomplishing this is remote. They erred with this but….

    3. Oldman, I thought you would appreciate this. The preferred was originally issued in 1913 so the prospectus paper maybe a bit yellow. Also, the float is roached out with little left now and New England Power issued a tender for $116.50 in 1997.

      Public Offering=Baker Ayling & Co. offered 10,000 shs ($100 par) at 96 in Mar 1913. Company offered to stockholders $250,000 at par in Feb 1914. Baker Ayling & Co. offered 2,500 shs at 97 1/2 in March 1914. Baker Ayling & Young, Boston, offered at 95 in Jan. 1919. Baker Ayling & Young, Blodget & Co. and Arthur Perry & Co., all of Boston, offered $1,250,000 at 100 in July, 1921
      Purchase Offer=11-97 by New England Electric System for all outstanding shs at $116.50 per sh. Offer expires 12-12-97

  5. Vanguard tightens its grip on the Nanny State!
    Beginning April 28, 2022, Vanguard will no longer accept purchases and transfers in of most over-the-counter (OTC) securities. This change allows us to better support a targeted, enduring suite of products and services rooted in Vanguard’s time-tested investment philosophy and built to help secure the long-term success of investors.

    1. That is my cue to close those accounts. I will miss their bond assortment though. The 401k for my LLC will be the toughest thing to move. More hoops to jump through.

      I have TD, Merrill Edge, RBC, and Fido accounts so I might as well go for an International Broker account now since TD and Schwab are combining.

      1. I have TDA, Fidelity, and IBKR. I have been buying lots of Canadian oil and gas stocks via IBKR so I like it. They are not as polished as TDA, but their margin rates are minuscule. I play the ex-div sometimes since margin rates are so low. Here’s a referral link if you are interested.

        I did the pro version purely for the lower margin rate. I started with the lite until I got familiar with it. Let me know if you have any questions, if we need we can take it off here.

        I only use Fidelity for HSA and 401k.

      1. Lou, as long as none of the other walking penquins try to fall in line here, it should be immaterial. Vanguard hasnt been a fan of these anyways. They dont allow foreign OTC issues such as Enbridge already. Hell they never allowed any OTC transfers in to begin with, as I tried several years ago. Vanguard didnt charge for these trades so I assume it cost them more. So they are just ridding themselves of issue instead of applying a charge.
        I only had one in it to begin with. The few others are in another account to begin with. Most illiquids I tradk are only now starting to cave and need to cave more for me to get back into.

        1. Grid:

          Remember the good old days when an illiquid preferred ute like CMS+B hardly caved at all during the March 2020 preferred carpet-bombing?

          Those days have gone the way of the dinosaur. I’m finding the current environment much more challenging than even that Spring 2020 period.

          On a different note, PFF continues to get hammered with outflows. Now nearly $1.5B in 2022 for this $16.8B preferred behemoth. They did something noticeable two weeks ago. They took their cash position up from only 24 basis points to 220 basis points – and have kept it there since.

          With nearly $400 million of cash on hand (the fund’s 2nd largest position), it seems like they are preparing for even more outflows.

          Keep your head on a swivel in preferred land!

          1. Hey Rob. They did what they were supposed to do. They gave you time to get out as the liquids started their descent. I have been out of them for largely 4-6 months now. Just own a couple that I wont sell…And BANGN I cant as I took it to the dark side, lol, being its experts now.
            In fact I would suggest most are still priced way too high compared to what is happening in liquid land of 5% par issuances. I basically rotated into term dated, adjustables and way above market yield for their relative quality (ala, CEQP-). But every trade or buy brings on a sell to raise even more cash.
            The preferred market overall is performing in a very logical if not predictable manner lately. I just have to keep staying disciplined. Im doing enough trading to make up for a few Im a bit early in….And letting my adjustables and term dated issues run.
            Im not interested in CMS-B, but am very much so in CMS-C if it can dig down to 6% land.

  6. WFC-L just hit 52 week low and now has hit the 6.0% mark. The beatings will continue until the morale improves. I have resisted the urge to play perpetuals except for a few trading issues for quite a while now… Would someone please kindly ring the bell loud for me when the perpetuals have bottomed out, so I can reenter, lol.

    1. Grid—I bought 15 today at 6%. Just going to buy high quality issues periodically as they drift lower as I somehow doubt they’ll ring a bell at the bottom. However, if God comes to me in a vision and announces we are at the bottom, I’ll post it here first after I load up.

      1. Dont forget to Randy, I am holding you accountable, lol… Historically speaking 6% for HQ perpetuals has been a reasonable hold. So I definitely understand your toe in process. Overall, we just havent got a wash out that occurs considering the environment we are in. During 2013 taper tantrum, when Funds rate were still at 0% and 10 year briefly popped above 3%, WFC-L went well under $1150… Heck, I was just looking at 5 year CD yields. Still under 3%. I helped buy my parents a 5 year CD just 4 years ago still paying that is 4.5%. Terrible!

        1. Last time inflation was this high they had to raise interest rates a lot higher than they are planning to this time.

          We just have to hope that coming out of a pandemic things will be different this time.

          But if it is not different, prices on these perpetuals have a long, long ways to fall yet.

          1. While prices can fall more we were almost desperate for yield 12 months ago and now here it is on a silver plated platter (not solid silver yet 😉 ). Eventually one has to start buying. Normally when people are fearful to buy has been the best times to start buying. So WFC-L has not been at this level since 2016-2017 ignoring covid. So I try not to over think things here. 6% is pretty good for sitting around on your rear just collecting dividends from a solid company. Might it be 7% 12 months from now? Could be. But missing out on that is not exactly life changing. You just have to open up your brokerage account, ignore the paper loss, and life goes on.

            And just now I finished slowly buying up my 100 shares of SR-A using just dividends and interest paid out recently. Feels good. Now to find the next target. 6% seems decent to target next.

            1. FC, some here have reached out to me via email and asked what I was buying. I decided just to post occasionally, but these are not recommendations and I urge everyone to please do your own deep due diligence. I bought 30 busted convertible bonds of REDWOOD TR INC SR UNSECD NOTE CONV 5.625% 07/15/24 CUSIP 758075AD7 @ $97.00 YTM 7.092%. These are right for my portfolio, but that doesn’t mean they are right for yours. In Latin we say, Potes tantum decernere quid sit fas an malum, Azure

              1. Azureblue, Most grateful for your posts! Using IBKR I cannot locate the Redwood Trust note. Might I ask which platform you purchased from?

                1. Vanguard, you are best to call their corporate bond desk and gave them the CUSIP. I like Vanguard for corporate and municipal bonds because their fees are so low, the representatives are so helpful and they have a massive inventory. Hoping you find your treasure, Azure

  7. Can anyone provide information about BACRP? Cannot find a prospectus. A CUMULATIVE, perpetual, non-redeemable 7% B of A preferred. Very few shares outstanding and seldom trades. Holders have voting rights. Issued in June 1997. Any more info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    1. I tried finding out about this one as an exercise Oldman. I didn’t get very far but what I did find was that it’s mentioned in the 10k from 1998 as having a “Specimen certificate of registered 7% Cum Redeemable Preferred Series B incorporated by reference to Exhibit 4(q) of registrant’s Annual Report on form 10k dated March 10, 1997 (the 1996 form 10k)”

      From I can see where there is a Exhibit 4(q), but good luck finding it….. It’s got to be there somewhere but darned if I could find it.

        1. xerty – just looking on the headlines, no details, on what you linked, that looks to be for an 8.75% preferred and BACRP is a 7% preferred… Somewhere in either one of the 2 10ks I was looking at it also said that the 7% preferred was issued in ’97… I was wondering the same thing though that maybe it’s an assumed preferred from either Nationwide or Boatmen’s… I eventually lost my interest in the exercise but hopefully Oldman took up the challenge.

    2. I own this issue after entering a low GTC order and waiting just less than a year to get filled. Someone sold a decent amount (can’t remember exactly but maybe about a thousand shares) and tripped off several GTC orders including my 200 at $107. The spread can be $50-$75 per share. I bought as a long term holding. I guess, following Grid’s plan, I could enter a very high sell order and just wait to see if it gets filled.

      1. OK, we’re getting somewhere – The issue is apparently one that was inherited from Boatmen’s Bancshares Inc as per Exhibit 99.1

        It looks like this issue is CUMULATIVE, has VOTING RIGHTS, and is REDEEMABLE AT THE SHAREHOLDER’S OPTION AT THE $100 PER SHARE STATED VALUE. How odd and seemingly extremely shareholder friendly terms:

        Note 15 PREFERRED STOCK
        At December 31, 1996 and December 31, 1995, there were outstanding 9,341
        shares and 9,609 shares, respectively, of 7% Cumulative Redeemable Preferred
        Stock, Series B, $100 per share stated value. Dividends are payable quarterly.
        The stock is redeemable at the stated value at the option of the holders and
        has equal voting rights with each share of common stock.


        NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock

        The NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock was issued in connection with the
        merger of Boatmen’s Bancshares, Inc. with and into NationsBank on January 7,

        Preferential Rights. NationsBank may, without the consent of holders of
        NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock, issue preferred stock with superior or
        equal rights or preferences. The NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock ranks
        senior to NationsBank ESOP Preferred Stock and Common Stock, but ranks junior
        to the NationsBank Series BB Preferred Stock with respect to dividends and
        distributions upon liquidation.

        Dividends. Holders of shares of NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock are
        entitled to receive, when and as declared by the NationsBank Board, out of any
        funds legally available for such purpose, cumulative cash dividends at an
        annual dividend rate per share of 7% of the stated value thereof, payable
        quarterly. Dividends on NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock are cumulative,
        and no cash dividends can be declared or paid on any shares of Common Stock
        unless full cumulative dividends on NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock have
        been paid or declared and funds sufficient for the payment thereof set apart.

        Voting. Each share of NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock has equal voting
        rights, share for share, with each share of Common Stock.

        Distributions. In the event of the dissolution, liquidation or winding up
        of NationsBank, the holders of NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock are
        entitled to receive, after payment of the full liquidation preference on shares
        of any class of preferred stock ranking superior to NationsBank Series B
        Preferred Stock (if any such shares are then outstanding) but before any
        distribution on shares of Common Stock, liquidating dividends of $100 per share
        plus accumulated dividends.

        Redemptions. Shares of NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock are
        redeemable, in whole or in part, at the option of the holders thereof, at the
        redemption price of $100 per share plus accumulated dividends, provided that
        (i) full cumulative dividends have been paid, or declared and funds sufficient
        for payment set apart, upon any class or series of preferred stock ranking
        superior to NationsBank Series B Preferred Stock; and (ii) NationsBank is not
        then in default or arrears with respect to any sinking or analogous fund or
        call for tenders obligation or agreement for the purchase or any class or
        series of preferred stock ranking superior to NationsBank Series B Preferred

        1. Thanks to everyone. The Boatman’s/NationsBank explanation makes the most sense to me. It explains why there is no BACRP prospectus, per se. The 7% coupon is consistent. Best comment was Justin’s “..the non-callable ones must be driving the corporate treasurer crazy…” This issue is so small that it likely seldom is a topic of discussion, I would guess. I think that this non-redeemable, perpetual preferred with a comparatively high coupon is an unintended consequence of B of A’s aggressive acquisition strategy the last century. I only wish I had more shares (I came in on the tail end of the last “dump” and got about 30 sh on a year’s old GTC order). Again, to the III community, thanks for your research and for the comparative wealth of info you provided.

          1. There are only about 7k outstanding and been whittled down greatly over the years (especially 2008-09 crisis) Not any material effect on their balance sheet at all. There are several of these noncallables running around on a few companies balance sheets. MSEXP has a float down to about 800 shares being its an uncallable ilk too.

              1. I did a lot of research on this one when I snagged 100 around $110 last year, but somebody bought them from me at $169 a short time later. I only remembered parts of this all so I didnt want to dig into it again, so I stayed out. A lovely issue get for Randy. I gave up on trying again, and shouldnt have, but his persistence paid off and good for him!

          2. the driving them crazy was not aimed at the interest expense, it is the amount of work they have to on the corporate books because it is still alive and there is no way to get rid of it

            1. How is there more work with this issue than any old subsidiary preferreds of utilities that have been on the books since the 1940s and have been callable since WW2 and they havent redeemed them?

              1. Compared to a UTE, there really isn’t, but financial institutions generally know better than to issue non-callable.
                and that 100 redemption provision is interesting as it puts a floor under the shares, and allows anyone who knows about it could be a way to take advantage of a buy below 100.

                1. And it appears people took advantage of that put back during the bank crisis. As I remember researching a year ago, the float shrank more during that time. Bank preferreds were pummeled back then so that put was immensely beneficial.
                  Its hard to gather an opinion on whether the terms were appropriate or not because we would need to know the financial condition of Boatmens at the time, and who it was issued to. It could possibly have been an insider goody bag issue like FIISO was. And that came at the banks origination. Boatmens was a small regional MO bank at one time as I remember it. It was one of those a fish swallowing a fish, swallowing a fish, swallowed by a whale thing.
                  So its not out of the realm of possibility the issue was sold to the people who initiated the need for it.
                  As far as cumulative goes, it was not out of ordinary for cumulative to be issued a few decades ago. I notice a Fleet preferred acquired by BAC and a Citi one also that was cumulative that show on Quantum and that was recent past. 2008-09 new regs killed off the cumulative variety.

            2. Justin, I thought your comment was funny and great. BACRP is a very minor nuisance for B of A, but a nuisance nonetheless. Funny that they don’t float an aggressive tender offer to rid themselves of it. But, it is so small that any attention paid to it by B of A probably has become boilerplate in SEC filings.

  8. Three $50 par Connecticut Light preferreds were the big losers today.

    CNLHO, down 9.8% to 44.00. 4.5% coupon
    CNLPL, down 4.2% to 58.69, immediately callable @51.84, 6.48% coupon
    CNLTN, down 5.1% to 42.25, 4.0% coupon

    Might be attractive if you are looking for UTE’s on sale

    We do not hold any of these in any account.

  9. 52 week lows in three Hawaiian Electric preferreds on tiny volume:
    Ticker, coupon yield, current yield, today’s price change %

    HAWEM 5.0% 4.61% -7.5% NEGATIVE Yield to First call
    HAWLI 4.75% 4.97% -6.2% Not sure what call price is, $21.00?
    HAWLL 4.6% 4.88% -5.75% Positive yield to first call

    All are immediately callable, but as noted before HE does not seem inclined to call them.

    We have no positions or orders for any of these in any account.

    1. HAWLM which is a 5.25% issue is probably the one to watch the most. Last trade of a 100 block at 21.25. Redemption is 21. The rest pay too little for me to personally watch them anymore. (full disclosure, i own some HAWLM).

      HAWEL/HAWEM/HAWLN (all 5% I believe) would be next but redemption is only 20 for HAWLN… so be careful there.

      I used to watch the ills like a hawk but I have lost interest in them until they collapse in price more. It may take a while. That leaves me with a tiny handful to watch that frankly trade so little it is almost pointless and buying enough to move the needle is quite difficult.

    2. HAWLI can be called at $21. Looks like 500 shares was burning a hole in someone’s account. I bought quite a bit on a day last Fall when thousands of shared traded hands. They have been around for 70 yrs, so I don’t really look at these. Today i saw them because my account went red, and was wondering why.

  10. Another strange one today. Vornado $50 face, convertible into common, VNORP, traded 9 shares @ a 10 year high of 225, up from the last trade on 2/11 of 82. That is a 174% jump! And VNO common was down, so it is not trading on the common price.

    Beats me why somebody would pay $225 for it.

    We do not own it in any portfolio and/or have any open orders.

  11. Union Electric UEPCP, 52 week low @ 90.31 down 3.69 from previous close of 94.00 yesterday 2/24/22. $100 par issue, 4.3% coupon, current yield= 4.76%, callable anytime @ $105.

    We do not own it in any account or have open orders.

    1. It dropped that much on share volume of 138 shares. I have been watching the bid floors dropping on these old low par issues as well they should. It just takes time. A price rerating will occur with the liquids selling off hard these past couple months. Its hard to see much relative value IMHO at say $90.31 for a UEPCP, when Alabama Power 5% is back bouncing around near par. And I cant say much for any value now in it either, ha.
      Personally I am down to my lowest ute preferred percentage ever and been that way for several months now. Dont like it, but most are low yielding perpetuals that are sitting ducks price wise.

      1. A year or so ago, over 40% of my portfolio was in a variety of IG, illiquid ute preferreds. All but a couple hundred PPWLO and an odd lot of WELPM are now gone.

        But I have maxed out Ibonds in every way possible and my energy holdings are a real hunkaburninluv.

        Even my investment cash is currently higher than it’s ever been.

        Interesting times.

        1. Camroc, Just continue being the jockey that whips the horse until the finish line. Dont let up! And also, make sure you outlive me, because if you dont, I will be prying those 3% fixed plus inflation rate Ibonds from your cold dead hands. 🤣

    2. Here are the utilities that I show with current yields >=5.0%, non-convertibles, yield to first call >0.0% and currently paying. These are both preferreds and babys/terms. (I would have included that in the data, but when I add more stuff, it thinks I am a spammer.)

      Ticker, current yield, comment

      CTGSP 11.1% Non-tradeable
      VIASP 8.7%
      AQNA 6.5%
      NI-B 6.2%
      SJIJ 6.2% New risk of being taken private
      SCE-H 6.1%
      SCE-J 6.0%
      SR-A 5.8%
      AQNB 5.8%
      SCE-K 5.8%
      SCE-L 5.7%
      CMSC 5.7%
      SCE-G 5.6%
      CMSD 5.6%
      SREA 5.6%
      CMSA 5.5%
      DUK-A 5.5%
      CTPPO 5.4%
      NRUC 5.4%
      ETI- 5.4%
      DUKB 5.4%
      NEE-N 5.3%
      SOJC 5.3%
      DTW 5.2%
      UEPCO 5.0%

      You MUST double check everything about this before making any trading decision. There might be errors in my data, particularly with some of the older illiquids, we woulda called them “Grids” before he sold all of his.

      1. Yeah, it might trade a couple thousand shares a month. I have bought a few thousand this year already. I’m still looking for a little more volatility and more selling on conviction. People are slowly getting out of their BB’s and preferreds. When the unrealized gains and red start showing up in their accounts, is where I think some of the selling on the backs of selling has been. Buying illiquids and then when things start turning south and then wanting out is kind of a hard place to be in because the trade volume just isnt there.

        I buy ones like these and treat them like oak trees. They have been paying for ~ 15 years, and they are still around when the wind blows. I really dont care what they drop to, unless the company is going bankrupt. This is because their divies continue to show up. If I was fine with the income X months/years ago, I’m fine with it today. Good luck.

  12. Pacificorp, a major Oregon & Northern California utility owned by Berkshire Hathaway, has two non-callable preferreds. It has been sued in connection with several 2019-2020 California and Oregon wildfires. Any feeling for the company’s liability? Reserves? Any real risk of a bankruptcy filing?

    1. EIX had more significant fires and still raised their dividend. But, things are still in the guesstimate stage. This from PacifiCorp most recent 10Q.
      As of September 30, 2021, PacifiCorp has accrued $136 million as its best estimate of the potential losses net of expected insurance recoveries associated with the 2020 Wildfires that are considered probable of being incurred. These accruals include estimated losses for fire suppression costs, property damage, personal injury damages and loss of life damages. It is reasonably possible that PacifiCorp will incur additional losses beyond the amounts accrued; however, PacifiCorp is currently unable to estimate the range of possible additional losses that could be incurred due to the number of properties and parties involved and the lack of specific claims for all potential claimants. To the extent losses beyond the amounts accrued are incurred, additional insurance coverage is expected to be available to cover at least a portion of the losses.

  13. Today, I had a long standing order filled—bought 200 BACRP at $107. It barely trades and today 1090 shares hit the market and sold between $95 and my order at $107. The last trade a long time ago was for $169. It’s a 7% Bank of America perpetual with no call date. At $107, my yield is 6.54% for a BBB- rated security. I was at the gym when it filled. Got home and immediately entered an order at $95 but never filled. One never knows when some illiquid stock all of a sudden hits the market.

    1. Nice catch Randy! I got 100 of these at 105 last year and flipped for 169 shortly later. I saw your 107 bid. I figured it was dead…good job!

    2. I snagged 400 shares in mid February. Seems like a great deal especially with the cumulative feature and $100 redemption option. It hasn’t traded a single share since then. My order probably executed because my limit price was $110 which was well over the bid (or is it the ask?).

  14. I cant say anything is a good buy now, ha. But if someone just has to do something without exposure to perpetual or long dated, some liquidity came back out today in 5.875% term dated RMPL-. An ask at $25.26. Its past call but has an Oct. 2024 term date to it. I risked the quarter or whatever (its actually less counting accrual math, Im not going to do) real call risk there is, to buy 200 more at $25.25 today.

    1. I have been sitting here watching preferred and BBs sink in price. Some I actually own sinking as well. Not really doing anything much in the way of buying or selling. I cannot decide if we are in a slight over reaction stage to the current news or it can get worse. I already positioned myself to be out of lower yielding IG a while back so I escaped the worst punishment we are seeing but even at current prices I still think we are not in true bargain territory yet.

      Since I own some SEC approved dangerous holdings I am already conditioned to seeing my account value drop tremendously. So I do not have a feeling of panic seeing a preferred I bought at 25.40 sitting at 23.75.

      Using your example above I have to wonder if we should be waiting for RMPL- below par!!! That might be a nice signal to start buying with fresh cash.

    2. This fund of RiverNorth has morphed from its original purpose as a marketplace micro-lender hasn’t it?? That came with the name change from its original RiverNorth Marketplace Lending Corporation name, right? I remember looking into it originally and deciding to pass, but its current mandate is much broader so maybe its’ worth a second looksee… the 200% mandated coverage ratio for the preferred calculated under Section 18(h) of the 1940 Act is always a nice feature, but I always wonder whether or not I overestimate its true protection in worst case scenario.

      1. Ya, Im definitely with you on trusting any of these entities and their math. Otherwise I would have bought more, ha. There are a few companies at the right price I could trust with a huge chunk of my cash. But this aint one. The coverage ratio helps me mentally, but the terms are the attraction here. One always risks the cart before the horse thing on buying these.

        1. If rates go up a lot of those oddball trust preferred sitting above par become much more interesting due to them being impractical to call compared to the past. Something to think about I suppose. I already own a slug of most of them so I am not sure I want to add myself. MER-K as an example is solid IG paying 6.15% interest at the current price. If Bank of America wanted to call it one would think it would have been done already with the last two issues they did. If they go below 26 that is some bargain territory there with a somewhat bearable call risk.

  15. Grid or anyone else:
    What’s the deal with AILLI (5.16%, $100 liq pref) vs. the rest of the Ameren issues?
    Current yield on the other issues ranges from 4.1% to 4.79%. Then AILLI jumps 30bps higher to 5.06%.
    Do you think this is just reflecting call risk (with AILLI coupon 26 bps higher than next-highest AILLN), or is there something else at play?

    1. Bur, its all about the issuance yield in relation to par and call price. Plus, being illiquid, specific willingness to sell or buy an issue. Concerning AILLI nobody is really looking to buy, and nobody is eagerly looking to sell at this moment.
      I personally wouldnt pay $106 ask for AILLI now, or $103 for that matter.
      Some of the illiquids including AEE ones are starting a small sagging in price. I personally have no interest presently in these at current price points.
      AILLL has been redeemed last year.

      1. Grid already knows this. Meant more as discussion.

        If the more liquid preferred keep dropping and create sales it is the ills holding up that should be sold. The time to buy ills is past unless they drop like a rock. If I can step out of an ill paying 4.5 to 4.9 for the same good price I bought it at tomorrow to capture a liquid high quality preferred paying 5.5 to 6 you bet I will take that layup. We are just not there yet. No guarantee all ills will hold up when it happens but all I need is 1 or 2 of them to hold up due to some bidder to make the swap.

  16. Anyone have a view on what is going on with FGFPP, a preferred stock issued by FG Financial group that dabbles in SPAC. The preferred has been cratering the past three weeks. Down to $19.

    1. No Ameren filings on AILLN. Its coupon is two basis points less than AILLM (4.9 vs 4.92%), and the ask on AILLM is 112 (AILLN if called redeems at 102, while AILLM redeems at 103.5). I picked up AILLN as well at 102. Zero principal risk, so the question is whether a buyer is happy with a 4.8% safe return (IG)? Interest rate risk is always present, but relative to the under 5% deals that have been prolific for several years, AILLN seems better (for now). Ameren, unlike some of the other ute illiquids, has called some issues. But AILLI at 5.16 has been hanging out there for decades. It could be called first, if at all, or the company could redeem them all–unlikely in a rising rate environment.

    2. No news. That was me, Private. You didn’t buy them all, but you’ll get another chance Monday.

      I’m sifting thru the cobwebs & dust in my sock drawer and selling some IG illiquids I thought I’d hold forever.

      Forever seems to be now. 😉

  17. CNLPL hits $67 today (I believe an all time high)

    Not sure why but someone wanted this so bad but I was happy to accommodate them on the way up. Alas I missed selling at the high of the day but I sold all 300 of my shares that I have owned since 2018

    Sad to see them go but just could not resist. Now I have to figure out what to do with the proceeds

    Goodbye old friend.

      1. Thanks Grid. Maybe with some rate hikes I can get lucky and buy them back in the mid 50’s later this year

        1. It might happen, Mav. I remember having angst buying it at $53 five years or so go, ha.

    1. Dang, a had a good until cascall order out and they went for 62 today. Bought at under 53 some years ago. It’s sister issue CNTHP is around 60.

      1. Meh, Dont hang your head, RE. If I judged every trade on its merit for getting out at the top, I would be a failure. Yet every gain stacks the returns as a compliment to the divis received. All you need is a suitable substitiute in case you cant get back in.
        Right now I have been feverishly trading a couple thousand shares of C-every day that I can banging out 20 cent gains. Trying to get the cost basis down to $25 as quickly as possible while its gyrating in a trading range after exD. This is one of the safest best live floaters on the market credit wise. But I wouldnt want to buy and hold at $27 knowing its gravely past call into a rate hike environment. If it shoots over $27, I will have to let em go.

            1. Gridbird, why do you think the 3 series of Citi TruPS haven’t been called? They look pretty attractive with the live float, but hard to believe Citi will leave them be when rates start to rise

              1. Their CEO was catching hell over it a couple years ago and he was staying firm they had no intentions of calling and liked the flexibility of it. But I dont trust it either, thus I have used the volitility in the issue since exD and traded it pretty hard the past week or so. Counting the interest payment I got buying pre exD and trading, I have got my cost basis just under $26 already. It has a lot of liquidity and has moved around 20 cents up and down in a single day several times. So I dont trust it, that is why Im getting what I can now when I can.
                But…if the damn thing ever dropped to par without a call, I would feast on this like a fat man at an all you can eat buffet. Until then I have to stay rational and pay mind to call risk.
                The debt funded into the trust is 7.87% and it pays out 6.8% off par. So there is a limit to their patience to leave outstanding at some point, or even today for all I know.

                1. Thanks. This is pretty bizarre. They could have easily called and reissued a similar security at much lower rate. But the market seems to believe they aren’t gonna call as C-N has traded above $28.50.

                  1. Its not as bad at first blush indicates. State and Fed tax appears to be about 30% and the interest can be written off as a deduction. That is equivalent to a net 4.76% QDI preferred as preferreds are not tax deductible. Still…….

                    1. Grid – You’re talking about Citibank being able to write off the interest, right? so from C’s point of view it’s not such a cut and dried decision as it might appear to have these called?

                    2. Yes, precisely. Those trust preferreds were created as a work around to in essence issue a preferred that met Tier 1 guidelines but allowed bank to keep the tax deduction. But even with that benefit most that were issued by various banks and are long gone and cannot be used again.
                      So the interest deduction alone wasnt a deciding factor in all being redeemed over the years. Also one never knows what their capital allocation plans are and how they want their capital ratios funded, etc. so there is no guarantee of it staying around tomorrow, just because its around today.

  18. CBKPP has a seller out at $102.65, 900 shares left, 200 sold. It has 3 more divis of $1.56 before either being redeemed or going floating at 3 month Libor plus a rather generous 4.556% spread for a BBB+ HQ issue. If Fed follows through on hikes this one could get back over 6% next year. This is the sister to CBKLP that was past call for several years before being recently redeemed.
    This was a close call for me, but I decided to buy 100. And probably jettison a lower yielding HQ perpetual to balance out the purchase.
    CoBank is annually considered one of the 50 safest banks in the world. Its a co-op rural focused bank if interested.
    A bid of $101.50 for 800 sits in line, so one may be able to bird dog lower if they were interested in pursing this security.

    1. What broker allowed you to buy this?…Neither Schwab, Vanguard, or Fidelity would allow me. Thanks!

      1. Sman, TD allowed me to buy. It might not be available on some brokerages. I have Vanguard and they wont as you know. They forced me to sell sister issue CBKLP a few years ago when I accidently snuck it through them somehow.
        Ally has allowed it in the past.
        I see some heavy hitter is out lurking with a 5,000 share bid at $102.25. Thats above my pay grade!

        1. Ally does not allow it. Pink with limited issue. Closing only. I was going to try to snag 200 with a bid. Oh well. I thought about calling them but it is right on the line for me. Not worth the argument over pink w/limited. Great issue though as you said.

          As always I appreciate the tip.

          1. Fc, Ally must be tightening up the leashes. They used to sell dog turds if they had a ticker slapped on it. Times change.. I have basically pulled out most of my cash and about to close that account down. Its just one less thing to keep track of for me. Im just going to 2 accounts and should just go to one. Opened that damn Treasury Direct account again for Ibonds so I never can get things consolidated enough for me.

            1. Weren’t both CoBank issues originally issues as 144A and somehow leaked into the public domain? That’s probably why they’re now not allowed in some brokerages now, don’t you thing???? Yup, times change…….

              1. Thats definitely probably the genesis of the problem. It was definitely issued institutionally. And still basically resides there. A $400 million float that rarely trades. CoBank for some reason sends financials to OTC so it stays tradeable. AG Bank wouldnt comply, so AGRIP wont trade anywhere retail wise now I suspect.

                1. Well that just confirms my suspicions, Grid – I’m not alone in an inability to get a grip on things as they are these days…………… ha

                  1. Forever Favre, Looks like things dont change much. Here is the 2021 list.
                    Agri is leader at 35 and CoBank is 44.. Only 4 US Banks on list and they are Ag and Coop related. But dont try to buy the Agri Bank preferred, it is too dangerous says the SEC. But buy all the Bank America preferreds you want even though they are never make the safest banks in world list.

              2. 2WR, I guess we got a little proof today that CBKPP is more of an institutional issue. It has had one transaction today. A 10,000 share block moved at $102.90 today. Unless that was you shedding a tear before you hit that buy button for $1,029,000 on a single stock purchase. 😀

                1. Grid – Considered as an individual family unit, we only allot that kind of money for purchases on QVC…. Those 3 oz Yankee Trader Scallop cakes have become very expensive, but then again we can’t just walk into the local Piggly Wiggly and pick em up and to the best of my knowledge Doordash and the like is nowhere to be found around here.. ha

  19. Local website cult preferred stock TECTP just declared divi yesterday payable 2/4. I picked up a 100 more on scrap money at 10.56 yesterday (or day before cant remember) and they also declared a common stock divi, too. This is second consecutive quarter the private common has recieved divi so I assume things are going well besides the solid profitable earnings reported (who the hell knows, as no one but PendragonY can deep dive bank financials) in their SEC filings…

    On January 25, 2022, the Board of Directors of Tectonic Financial, Inc. (the “Company”) declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.225 per share on the Company’s outstanding shares of 9.00% Fixed-to-Floating Rate Series B Noncumulative Perpetual Preferred Stock. The dividend is payable on February 15, 2022 to shareholders of record as of the close of business on February 4, 2022.

    On January 25, 2022, the Board of Directors of the Company declared a cash dividend of $0.0625 per share on the Company’s outstanding shares of common stock. The dividend is payable on February 15, 2022 to shareholders of record as of the close of business on February 4, 2022.

  20. Two EXTREMELY illiquid issues today stood out:

    VNORP, 6.5% coupon, $50 par, busted convertible, down 38.11 to 50.00 on 13 shares. That is a 43.2% drop

    BMYMP, 4.0% coupon, $50 par, strongly convertible into BMY common, down 794.00 to 1106.00 on a single share. That is a 41.8% drop.

    Third largest drop today was TELZ, down 6.0%, but it is NOT an illiquid. Traded 55,262 shares so it seems more like an honest market opinion compared to the first two.

    We have no positions in any account for these issues. We held TELZ in a few accounts but sold it a while back based on some conversations here on III.

    Median preferred lost -0.40%, so these were outliers. On prefs/babys/terms that traded today, 553 were down, 206 were up and 0 were unchanged.

    1. Just messed up the up/down stats for today:
      528 down
      179 up
      27 unchanged

      Also this excludes any issues that closed @ <10.00

      My apologies for not editing the first post sooner.

      1. Why guess, can just check on quantum. Its a deep itm convertible so the liq pref doesn’t really matter

        1. I have never played with this late 1960s issued convertible largely because their guidelines state they can redeem it at $50 anytime. Now the issue has over the years been bled down to only 3-4k thousand shares (cant remember off top of head) so it doesnt trade much. Im sure loosely off current conversion value, but I never have tracked that down, though I never really tried either.
          d) Redemption. The Corporation at its option, at any time, or from time to time, on or after December 23, 1972 (except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) above), may redeem all or any of the shares of such series at the following applicable prices:

          If Redeemed During
          the 12-Month Period
          Beginning December 23,
          Per Share
          Redemption Price
          1972 $ 53.00
          1973 $ 52.50
          1974 $ 52.00
          1975 $ 51.50
          1976 $ 51.00
          1977 $ 50.50
          1978 and thereafter $ 50.00
          together in each case with an amount equal to any dividends accrued and unpaid thereon to the date of redemption.
          Read Appendix A in link if you want more dynamic intellectual stimulation.

            1. They had a pretty powerful provison of the preferred (being its only one) they needed knocked out in 2015. They didnt want these shareholders holding up anything of importance.

              SECOND REMINDER

              April 20, 2015

              Dear Preferred Stockholder,

              You should have received proxy materials in connection with Bristol-Myers Squibb Company’s Annual Meeting of Stockholders to be held on Tuesday, May 5, 2015. According to our records, your vote has not yet been received. Your vote is extremely important, particularly for Proposal 5 to amend our Amended and Restated Certificate of Incorporation to remove the supermajority voting provisions applicable to Preferred Stockholders. At last year’s annual meeting, a stockholder proposal requesting the elimination of all supermajority voting provisions in our Amended and Restated Certificate of Incorporation received support from a majority of shares cast. The Board, in its continuing review of corporate governance best practices and after taking into account the…….
              BMY does their best to hide info on this. Typically any convertible I can find the conversion multiple in yearly filings. Not with these guys. They list shares outstanding and that is it. I had to dig out Appendix A just to find anything.

  21. Is UEPEN on the forbidden list? I own a small number of shares via fidelity in my 401k account. I am not looking to add or sell at the moment, but I was just wondering if it had been blacklisted in an effort to protect me?

  22. New 52 week low for SLMNP @ 955.00, down 30.00 from previous close of 985.00 on 12/29/21. Only 15 shares traded @ 955, but there were two 876 share trades @ 997.5 and 995. It goes ex-dividend tomorrow 1/13 for the 15.00 dividend. Don’t know if any more shares are available @ 955 or not. It is one of the forbidden fruit SEC Rule15c2-11 issues, so it is not clear that mortals can buy it.

    We have a micro-micro-microscopic number of shares in one account and NO open orders in any account. We were NOT involved in today’s trades.

    1. Tex the 2nd,
      My 30 units of SLMNP took a big drop today. i dont belive Lyondell is at risk of defaulting again. Is this a sell or it is best to hold on to them and keep collecting the interest payment?

      1. It was only 14 shares sold. Some small holder decided to sell and probably put in a market order or kept lowering the price until they hit a bid. We cannot see what is going on but I have a feeling if there was a 500 shares available to buy at 1000 we would see a nice pop back up. The people who own this, I included, have come to the conclusion we will hold for a very long time. I don’t even look at it until it is payday every 3 months.

        LYB is a very profitable company.

      2. The drop is neither interest rate related or LYB related…. It’s strictly SEC Rule15c2-1 related where you’re allowed to sell it if you own it, but you can’t buy it… Buying is restricted severely to a limited group of “experts” who fully know that they have no competition from those who would willingly and knowledgeably be willing to buy sans SEC Rule15c2-1 so they take full advantage and rip the lungs out of anyone who feels compelled to sell.. So thanks again for the protection, SEC…

        1. As with KTBA, I say if you can find something else investment grade, non-callable, and yielding 7%, then sell. Until then, I’m holding. The current prices of KTBA and SLMNP established by the “experts” are just not reflective of their values.

      3. Tim and all, I tried to post it in User Initiated but I had difficulty. I have some good news on Gridbird’s SLUMP. Among many SA authors I have subscribed, WOLF report just issued a very possible article on LYB, the new owner of SLUMP according to It appears LYB is somehow survived bankruptcy and now got lots of cash and paying its common shareholders about 4+%. shows steady and stable dividends since 9/3/2019.
        I will continue to hold my 15 or 16 or 17 shares in various accounts. Disclosure: I sold only about 1 or 2 shares and decided I should follow Gridbird, who really knows his stuff. Good luck to Tim and all of us too.

        I posted a similar or less detailed message in Silicon, where they have tons of Gridbird’s followers.


  23. Grid and 2WR—thanks for your info on tectp. This preferred evidently was issued by a private company, which I think is why I was confused. There is really no info on Tectonic Financial. My question—how does one perform any due diligence?

      1. That reports mentions common shares—so they must be privately held and non traded?
        Weighted average common shares outstanding

        1. Yes, or at least shares traded are through private transactions. Some of my local banks have common shares, but arent allowed to be traded, and can be tendered back to bank at specific times, limits, and procedures.

    1. Randy, if you are a drive by reader, here is the overview from 2WR’s link.
      About Us
      Full Service
      Financial Services
      Wealth management
      Private equity

      Serving Wide
      Array of Clients
      High net worth individuals
      Small businesses
      Registered investment advisers
      Clients in all 50 states,
      with a concentration
      on fast-growing
      Texas markets
      Software Platform
      Proprietary technology to onboard and manage loans, open operating bank accounts and 401(k) plans​
      Tectonic Financial is a financial holding company that offers several intertwined verticals: banking, trust, investment advisory, securities brokerage and insurance services to small businesses, 401k/defined benefit plans, institutions and high net worth individuals in all 50 states.

      The largest asset, T Bank (a Dallas, Texas headquartered community bank), was ranked among the Top 200 Banks in the United States in Lending Tree’s 2020 annual analysis and is an SBA Preferred Lender. The Bank’s loan portfolio has specialties in SBA originations and medical practices. The Bank contains a trust department, which has medical professionals’ retirement plans as its core.

      Tectonic Financial also owns a registered investment advisor, Tectonic Advisors, which provides money management for many of the medical professionals whose 401(k)s and similar vehicles are trusteed by the Bank. In addition, a dually licensed securities firm, Sanders Morris Harris, generates private investments for clients and provides institutional execution and deposits for the Bank. Smaller parts of the holding company are successful third-party administration and insurance practices.

      We believe that we can leverage this combination of financial services and our integrated next generation financial services platform to benefit those we serve: our clients, our employees, our communities and our shareholders.

      1. Speaking of “high net worth individuals”… I wonder if any of their clients can trade on the expert market scooping up some pretty impressive buys the last few months.

  24. Three illiquid, $50 par, Connecticut Light issues had >5% selloffs today on microscropic volume. Do not know if there are any more shares available at these prices or not. Two of the three made 52 week lows:

    CNLPM 4.12% coupon, @47.00 down 5.5% on 200 shares
    CNLTL 3.80% coupon, @ 45.00, down 10.0% on 111 shares
    CNLTP 4.40% coupon, @49.88, down 9.3% on 100 shares

    We have no positions or orders for any of these in any account.

    1. Now ills have some advantages that are not always apparent at first glance as Grid would say but I would be hesitant to buy them even at those prices. CNLTL @45 is still only a 4.2% yield with some nice call protection upside. Paying 45 today might sell for 40 18 months from now. I would personally want at least 4.65% which means I would bid 41 today. Now I realize it is an ute. IG. Stable business but one should be able to do better then that in this current env. I would rather just by NSARO at 103 and take my risk of losing .20 cents per share if called. At least I get 4.65% today.

        1. Grid, I thought these investment grade illiquid utilities were your bread an butter…what happened?

          1. Citadel, I do have a lot of illiquids, just not the traditional IG ute perpetuals. I have a nice chunk in various Indianapolis Power various issues and that is about it outside of untradeable BANGN. The low 4% perpetual stigma is just too risky for me right now.
            Have more illiquid stuff like TECTP, KTH, WTREP, CRLKP types now, along with various term dated and adjustable stuff. But if I can get a sell off, I will be back those!

    2. That is the life of an illiquid and why they make good trades on good entry and lucky exits. Take CNLTP the price drop was distorted as it really only returned to previous range considering it just went exD a short while ago.
      01/10/2022 12:58:21
      -5.12 100
      12/31/2021 12:08:35
      -1.07 257
      12/31/2021 12:08:31
      5.62 100
      12/31/2021 12:08:17
      0.45 100
      12/16/2021 11:49:25
      -0.25 100

  25. A few shares of NMK-B offered for sale @ 99.00, down from 102.00. 3.6% coupon UTE immediately callable @ 104.85.

    We have NO positions in any account.

  26. So many good preferreds here that the government is protecting me from buying. Sigh.

    Who exactly is deemed to be expert enough to buy these and how much did they pay the government to make them off limits to commoners like me?

  27. Anyone buy into the KTH mini sell off on huge volume dump of 10k today? I missed the 31.20s bottom but got in at the $31.45 and under range. That is about 4.5% YTM, so not earth shattering, but I have to keep a certain amount of IG utes and this having the 2028 backstop at least mitigates the perpetual infinity problem. I dont know if any more are available at that price range or not.
    With rates creeping up it would be a tough one to chase higher. Its been a historical fun one though for me. Just last month I bought and flipped for a buck gain a share holding just a few days. I was on a little getaway with an old friend and remember buying them at a mall and selling them in a bar, ha.

          1. Study hard! I remember many years ago when I first traded it, I was studying deep into PECO’s public service commission reports to make sure it was ring fenced from then dirtbag parent Exelon. I wanted nothing to do with that company. Probably isnt so bad now, but PECO is ring fenced so it doesnt matter. If memory serves you have to deal a bit with OID phantom tax if held in tax free account. I have always held in tax free, but a few people told they got clipped a small amount in taxable.

          2. 2WR, By the way, in case you are curious, as I think you loaded your IBond account with me in September, they are now showing one months interest credited to your Ibonds (last 3 months are withheld of course).

            1. Thanks, Grid – No real reason to even really look at Ibonds at Treasurydirect until re-upping on this year’s max later this month.

    1. “With rates creeping up it would be a tough one to chase higher”

      Not sure about that if the new OXLC 2027 baby bond prices at 5-5.25% lol. I wasn’t as quick on the draw as you, but cleared out what was remaining at ~ $31.50

      1. I personally agree with you, 730, just trying to maintain some caution in post. Im a ute preferred honk so I dont need pumped up on them, ha. Also, I dont mind having a high/low barbell in income issues holding this type of issue and the SB type preferreds on the other end. My average total income yield is around mid 6%. But, out of my 30 or so issues, not one of them is a 6% current yield issue. So I definitely work on both ends.
        If you got the $31.50 ones, you may have cleaned up the rest. As I am pretty sure the ask jumped back to $32 before market closed did it not?

        1. Yes, after I cleared out the seller at $31.50 the ask was $32.10. But I’m trying for a quick flip Gridbird special on a few of my shares @ $32.00 lol.

          1. I will wait for you first to clear. Its easier to sell higher when liquidity dries up, so we dont want to compete, ha!

      1. Alas…even Schwab now rejects any orders.

        I suspect this is to some extent tax loss selling…a security that swoons in the last month in a very strong market. Expect a bounce in January…buy how to buy??

        1. I thought there was some “trick” to buy there. Like you had to walk up your bid until you hit. Something like that. Even that is gone?

          1. Yes, that used to work. Now an order is immediately rejected.

            “Your order cannot be accepted. This security KTBA is accepting closing transactions only.”

            Of course this is not true, as someone…a so called “expert” is buying….

        2. Even if you could place an order at a particular broker, it doesn’t mean you’ll ever get a fill.

          The bigger question is: do you really want to buy it just because it’s cheap? What if it becomes unsellable in the future? You need 15 years of interest just to get your $25 back. And then there will still be 59 years more to maturity!

          I appreciate that it is a theoretical steal if you could buy it at $25, but if it’s not going to mature during my lifetime, I’m not sure the payment stream itself is worth it. But hey, it’s all hypothetical because I’m sure I couldn’t buy it even if I wanted to.

          1. Karma…you are assuming the SEC problem will not be solved. Or perhaps the trust will be dissolved and the underlying bonds distributed. Or ATT might decide to buy for their own account.

              1. Unsellable is the only issue we have not had to worry about so why bring that up? That is the one thing we can all currently do. At a certain stage hypotheticals can be dismissed because the reality is wr can sell today and tomorrow. A rule change won’t take place instantly.

      1. Tim, Those are old abandoned last day it traded (pre SEC regs) bid and asks. Many brokerages appear to just left them frozen in time with no relevance.

  28. OCESP paid my wife and I our dividends on 12/15/2021. Ally, in two different accounts, pulled the dividends back on 12/28/2021. Now based on past reading here at this fine website I knew to keep an eye on this situation as this is not the first time it has happened to others at different brokerages.

    I called Ally to open a ticket. Ally did their normal dance of putting me on hold and explaining that OCESP does not pay a regular dividend. I expected them to say that and I am not surprised. Just pop in “”ocesp” dividend” into google and it quotes the wall st journal’s fabulous useless info of: “OCESP is not currently paying a regular dividend.”

    I went on to explain the conversation that took place from other users from this website. Obscure preferred, paying faithfully for decades, my wife and I might be your only account holders who own it, Ocean Spray sends the money, yada yada.

    I just wanted to let others know to keep an eye on their holdings if they own it. You might have to open a ticket to get the money back. Always check your div/interest! This site has taught me that. Last time it was OXLCL only giving me 1/3 the amount because they thought it was monthly instead of quarterly.

    1. I hold my OCESP at Schwab. The 6/15/21 dividend was not credited to my account until 7/15/21 after going through “the same type of dance” fc. So this time I am simply going to wait until 1/15/22 before I contact them and waste any of my time.

    2. I got mine at TDA on the 15th. Today they took it away. Same thing happened last time, but I did end up getting it back, so I suspect the same will happen this time too…..?

    3. Ally paid out OCESP a few business days ago last week. I imagine the whole process will repeat like this again and again but in the end you get your dividend. Just wanted to post this to tell the end of the story.

  29. “Big” day in illiquids! MSEXP , Middlesex Water, traded a whopping ONE share @ 106, down 27% from the last trade of 5 shares on 9/22/20, or 15 months ago. Gotta be the featured Poster Child for 2021 Illiquids.

    FIISO, Financial Institutions, traded 82 shares, down 32% @ 144.88. Last trade was ONE share on 11/29/21 @ 177.00 Only had to wait one month between trades.

    Not exactly candidates for a quick flip with either of these issues.

    We have never owned them or had any orders for either in any account, nor do we plan to add any orders, till death does us part. . .

    1. 144.88 for FIISO was my bid that sat there for many many weeks. I did not get a single share. Whoever sold it had their order go to someone else and of course it was snapped up. Annoying but what can I do? I was so ticked I canceled my GTC order and now my 5 shares of FIISO sit there mocking me. Whoever sold it priced 82 shares at exactly what I was offering I reckon. OTC is truly opaque and unfair at times but I have to admit it has gone my way a few times as well.

      I also bought that 1 share for 177 in an attempt to shake some apples out of the tree. I was going to post about it but felt too frustrated. lol

      I had nothing to do with MSEXP…

      1. fc, I have 99 shares of FIISO that I’m looking to offload. Let me know if you are interested in them. I wasn’t the one you shook the tree on, lol.

        1. I would be interested in them between 142-145 per share. My goal was to attempt to get them at a 6% yield but that does not seem doable over the last months. So I raised my bid so the yield was a touch below 6%. It almost worked on that last 82 shares.

          One issue I have is that ally does not allow greater then 10K purchases of OTC securities so I always have to place two bids of 50 shares each to show up on anyone’s radar. That could cause a problem?

          Either way.. I would place a bid for that amount and you can sell anytime you want. If I get them.. I get them. If not.. we tried. What broker do you use?

          Ugh. Ally wont allow me to place a bid at 145.10 to beat the other person. It is like I have to wait until someone has an active ask above that. I get this message.

          “The limit price you have entered is too aggressive either buying at a limit above the current Ask, or selling at a limit below the current Bid. Please adjust your price based on the current quote.”

          So it is like you would have to put an ask out of 177… get it active.. and then I put my bid. Or we wait for someone else. Getting annoyingly complex.

          1. Thanks for replying so soon. Unfortunately not looking to sell for that low of a price. Can certainly understand you wanting to get it mid 140’s. Weird about your OTC limits. Haven’t experienced that myself.

            1. I don’t blame you for wanting to hold them. If I had to pay a price which gives a 5.3-5.5% yield there is so many other options to explore. I want a “bargain” of course. But go ahead and put them out for bid and tell me your price and maybe I will snap them up 🙂

              Ally is like a broker on training wheels. I am used to them since I am an old tradeking customer and Ally bought them out to become a broker. My old account is still grandfathered in many positive ways but some odd OTC rules did get pushed over from the new Ally interface which is a negative. Either way the work around of multiple orders does result in showing up in Level II so I can live with it. Having a bid for OTC securities is never a guarantee to get the shares as I have learned.

          2. FC, I have dealt with Ally before, and presently liquidated to close them out. That being said those sub 100 share orders are more likely to get jumped on OTC unless it shows the odd lot ask (a few do). Or this has been my experience anyways. What you do is call the order in and have the rep put a 100 share order in. They can override that limit. I had to do that on more than one occasion with them..

            1. Grid, thanks for letting me know. As always it depends on what person you get on the phone I suppose. I have tried to call in and was told no in the past. I guess I should try again. Take OCESP when it dropped. I was like hurry.. 1000 shares at 14! stat! They said no.. I was like ok.. 500 and then another 500 for goodness sakes. Then hang up and call back in for a different account where I had to do the same thing all over again with a different phone support person because my wife just happened to walk in the door at the right time.

              I have been tempted to move to a diff broker a few times now. I hate the idea of having so many accounts. I already have 3-4 as it is for different things.

              1. FC, The rep needs to contact “boss” to approve it. They always did for me. If they are just saying that is the limit maybe these are rookies and unaware they can get approval.
                They are just so damn dumb, I threw in the towel with them. Now that new gray market IPOs are getting hard to get in on, my need for this brokerage went to zero. The last straw was when I was trying to sell an issue and it would cancel. They said it was market maker. I said that is wrong, as I have it in other accounts and could put sell orders out. He didnt believe me so I made him watch the screen and I would tell him the price I was going to post and then I did. I did it a couple different times to prove it. So he got on their incompetent tech staff and they fixed it that day.

  30. Yesterday, I bought 200 IPWLK at $101. If a lasts a year, my yield to call would be about 4.6%. At 2 years, it’s a little over 5%. I’ll take my chances.

  31. CNLHP buyable at par of 50. 4.5% IG.

    Who here is upping their bid by a penny with me? 😛 I want a lowball end of day dump. I already own some of this so I won’t chase very hard.

    1. Thanks fc for the heads up. Picked up a couple hundred @ 50 which is at the low end of it’s multi-year chart. This suits my goal of having a largely “sock drawer” portfolio. Along with 10 -15% riskier high yield issues and trading I shoot for a 7% annual return. This has been a good year as I’m up 9.3%. I try not to compare to the market at its depressing. I’m sure others here have done much better this year as I’ve made a couple somewhat costly boo boos. That said, can’t complain too much since my retirement budget is only 6%.

    2. IPWLK dropped a buck and a half today? I know it went ex, but is AES calling this baby home?

      1. Grid posted some info that gives an impression that over the next two years they could be called. I cannot seem to find it. Nothing solid but it seemed like a “clue”.

  32. can’t sell KTBA in schwab – my sell orders are canceled seconds after being accepted. Called them and they are “inquiring”….

    1. @ dd
      I have no problem entering a sell at Schwab. I entered an order to sell at 31 and it it is still there 5 minutes later.

      Of course, I’m not selling at what pass for current prices….

      1. Interesting, RetiredBroker, lack of consistency in their ops?

        This is what they wrote to me:
        “KTBA is an expert market only security. Sells must be entered through a rep like myself and only in a certain way.”

        Needs to be “Not Held” and you have to answer 3 questions.

        I was trying to change an old order, not placing a new one.
        Can you change your order?

        1. Strange indeed dd.

          Perhaps it has something to do with your “risk tolerance”? Brokers have to ask such questions on account opening. Maybe Schwab is “protecting” you?
          FWIW, my sell order is still there. I have had Schwab cancel buy orders on KTBA (seemingly for no reason…some orders stay put and some have even executed) but never a problem with a sell order.

          1. I like their “protection” concerns….

            BTW: schwab has no bid and ask for KTBA (and same in M.E.), while in TD they have ask at $31.10, yet you get no execution…. and last trade listed is $27.05.

            Maybe we simply have to forget these illiquids, enjoy the divs, and leave the shares to our grandchildren

            1. DD, KTBA is a total market distortion caused by SEC and OTC. KTBA is simply the 2095 7% Bell South bond (assumed by ATT of course). This actual bond also trades on the bond market. Its last trade 2 days ago was 155. It is trading 55% over par! KTBA is trading what 8% over par? Its the same thing. Of course its value that cant be unlocked at this time and maybe never, but if they changed the rules it would. I wouldnt try to dump it now, just keep it as an annuity and assign any value you want to it. 🙂 Here is the KTBA bond in true bond trading pricing.

              1. Grid,
                I like the idea of considering it as an annuity (forever?), and simply do NOT look at the quoted price. In fact, in my spesaheet I have separated all the illiquids so that I compute my account performance WITHOUT them.

                This raises the converse question: IF you find a broker that would accept buy orders and you have more $ to place as annuities, isn’t KTBA at around $27 a great deal?

                1. Is there a future for KTBA?
                  To put its terms in perspective. It matures in 74 years.
                  going backwards in time 74 years was 1947, which is about the same amount of time before area codes were introduced (8 years) as the birthdate of someone who would be retiring on the date the bond matures in 2095.

                2. DD, Justin brings up a good point assuming you want residual value for whomever you leave it too. I think it can be treated like an annuity, but not bought in a manner annuities can be, because of singular company concentration risk.
                  I own a couple of “annuities” in BANGN and WTREP. Im personally not worried about them. You almost have to assume its a private issue untradeable and if you want to stick heirs with it…Though personally there appears to be a market with KTBA at the present fleecing level it is at, so being “stuck” with it isnt likely.

                  1. Big difference. WTREP is callable. BANGN is not .
                    There are only two types of investors that should buy these things.
                    Insurance companies and dynasty trusts because they can collect the income in perpetuity and won’t be fazed by buying something that will be around like those hundred year old railroad issues and 60 year old Ocean Spray preferreds.

                    1. Yes, but near term its irrelevant because the ability to sell now is out of your hands, so it doesnt matter if its callable or not since you cant do anything about it once it went private. So this is why I percieve as the same. However it does have a 2034 owner optional redemption which I hope to be alive still. BANGN, well there is a 3rd type…Me… I dont care, I own it and wont sell it anyways. 🙂

                  2. If brokerages are not allowing to place buy orders, who am I going to sell to?
                    Who is allowed to buy?

                    And regarding “perpetual annuities”, these would be fixed annuities, meaning that with time, the fixed income you r receiving is worth less and less — not a great gift to heirs…

                    1. You can enter orders to close open positions. The designated “experts” can buy it from you in the so-called expert market.
                      I have a large (for me) position in KTBA. My cost is ~$30.50. I would not consider selling it for $27. In fact, if I were offered $30.50, I would not take it in the present market conditions. I am getting 5.7% yield on my cost (nearly 6.5% on the present $27 price). Considering that KTBA is not callable, you cannot find anything now of comparable investment grade that gives you that kind of return. As Grid correctly notes, the underlying security trades for an equivalent price of $38.75. There is a serious disconnect here between the value of KTBA and its price in the expert market. I’m content to collect the interest until conditions change.

                    2. The greatest gift is probably not being around when your kids say that you could have left them 4.8 mil, but you instead gave them only 4.2 because of some annuities you were invested in.

                    3. Mr. Conservative,
                      I like your approach!
                      In my case they would say in addition to “only 4.2M because of some annuities you were invested in”, they would say: “with a stupid annuity that can’t be sold and pays only $1.75 per unit per year, which by then due to inflation it may be equivalent to $0.45 per unit per year”.

                      I guess the best, in order to avoid sourness, is to donate all the remaining KTBAs to some non-profit, and thus they will only say: “the old man left me 4.1M , even after his philantropy!!!!”

              2. If I owned enough KTBA, I would be tempted to file a class action lawsuit to force Citigroup to cause the termination of the trust under clause iii.


                The Trust shall terminate upon (i) the payment in full at maturity, (ii)
                the distribution of the proceeds received upon a recovery on the Underlying Debentures (after deducting the costs incurred in connection therewith) after a Payment Default or an Acceleration thereof (or other default with respect to the Underlying Debentures) or (iii) the distribution in kind of the Underlying Debentures upon the tender by an affiliate of the Depositor of 100% of the Certificates in exchange for 100% of the Underlying Debentures.

                1. Justin, nothing you copied implies any cause for termination of the trust. Either way, the prospectuses always state that there may not be a public market for the securities, so you’d be out of luck just based on that.

                  1. I should be clearer on why. It isn’t that they aren’t making a market, it is the reason why it it moved to the expert market, namely, because the trustee hasn’t complied with the OTC Market rules regarding SEC disclosure because the underlying issuer is compliant with their SEC filings, and the trustee has a fiduciary responsibility to the beneficial owners and file with OTC Markets all AT&T’s (the issuer, now, as successor to Bellsouth) SEC filings and that not doing so is breaching their duty to the certificate holders.
                    The other problem is that the contract is one sided on the terms in how it treats the beneficial owners because it grants them no powers, but they need at least limited powers to do things like terminate the trust if the trust continuation is not in the beneficial owners’ best interest.
                    So the suit asks for two things:
                    1. Either the trustee can start filing with OTC markets the SEC filings, or 2. the court can order the affiliate to terminate the trust and distribute the underlying bonds to the certificate holders.

                    1. I should add, this is the only security that has this problem. All the other structured products that landed on the expert market had worthless JCPenney bonds underneath.
                      (for some reason Ladenburg Thallman’s securities are classified as structured products)
                      A supporting argument is there are a lot of of other structured products created by this same issuer that still trade on the NYSE, so the issuer singling this one out for the expert market while leaving the other certificate holders unaffected is a showing of bad faith.

                    2. “Terminate the trust and distribute the underlying bonds to the certificate holders…”

                      Yes! Wouldn’t that be grand?

                    3. Justin, the entire thing is a farce. Have you ever read an old filing of KTBA when it was on an exchange? All it said was to go to ATT financials to find them. So it never disclosed anything when they filed because there was nothing to disclose.

                    4. And they stopped doing even those bare minimum filings. ..
                      but they are current on the one linked to Peco Energy.

                2. There appears to be a reason….Once it was no longer Bell South, and now ATT from acquisition, this led to delistment.
                  As a result of such termination of reporting by BellSouth Corporation and BellSouth Telecommunications, Inc., it will not be possible to continue the listing of the CorTS Certificates identified above on the Exchange.

                  The Exchange also notifies the Securities and Exchange Commission that as a result of the above indicated conditions this security was suspended from trading on February 13, 2007.

                  …..PECO still reports earnings through parent. So this is probably why its so.

  33. UEPEP (part of Ameren) ask at 101. Redemption at 102.47. 4.56% coupon at 100 par. Could tank if rates rise but an IG issue with little call risk.

    1. Sold my last shares of UEPEP at 102 recently on the third of fourth try. Not really worth the effort for such meager returns (imo). The proceeds will likely go into i-bonds, or something else a bit more liquid earning a better dividend.

  34. WTREP Groupies…. A.M. Best which is a respected insurance credit rating agency, put this out after Watford acquisition was completed. Preferred is a solid bb rating.
    AM Best has removed from under review with negative implications and affirmed the Long-Term ICR of “bbb-” (Good) and the Long-Term Issue Credit Rating of “bb” (Fair) on the $225 million ($52 million outstanding) 8.5% cumulative preference shares of Watford Holdings Ltd. (Watford) (Bermuda), the group’s ultimate holding company. The outlook assigned to these Credit Ratings (ratings) is stable.
    The ratings reflect Watford’s balance sheet strength, which AM Best assesses as very strong, as well as its adequate operating performance, neutral business profile and appropriate enterprise risk management.

    1. Grid—is there any gossip or any rumors about the intentions of the three firms owning this company? Are they raising funds to call the prf stock? Just ignoring it for the moment because of other more important matters? I guess we’ll wake up one morning to find it has been called. In the meantime, let’s just enjoy the nice dividend checks.

      1. Randy, dont sell it as we are about to get another dividend! Wait you cant, never mind, ha. No, they mentioned they were looking at financing this and redeeming but that was at beginning of going private.
        $52 million is a drop in the bucket, so I dont know why they redeemed $200 million of it several years ago and left $50 outstanding and then gave it a trading ticker at that point (it originally was a private insider issued preferred).
        So who knows, if its still outstanding come summer, I guess they just want to strand it and worry about overpaying on yield.

  35. I found this newsletter by accident. I don’t pay for newsletters. I have no idea if their track record is any good.

    There was some free stuff though that I did read that was interesting. They seemed to have a pretty simple model for the micro cap banks they cover.

      1. What would you call this?

        “In the previous Issue, we ran a feature called “Small Bank Snapshot,” wherein we presented what wethought were two small bank ponds that were worth fishing in – a “cheap” one with low price totangible book value and also a “quality” one with higher return on equity banks at reasonable prices.”

        I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I was trying to make it clear there is no “vouch” from me is all. I did find one little bank that looked good to me, but the div was 4% and to low for me.

        I know that newsletters think they are clever, but the SEC was crying about freakin’ Wall St Bets chat rooms but no recommendations there! Even that Roaring Kitty fool was questioned.

        Anybody that tries to induce me to do or believe what they want me to do especially if I am paying said person to do so to me is a recommendation.

  36. Just checking my Schwab acct, and a sudden boost in total value from our old friend OCESP coming back to life. Apparently 1500 shares have traded today, last price 16.85 and ask is 17.00. Just under a 6% yield at those prices..Think it just went Ex-Div …
    Schwab only place I know of that can be traded, but maybe others..

  37. Someone can scoop up 100 shares of CNLHP for 50.70 if they want. That is about 4.47% and call price is 50.50 so hardly a concern. Just does not interest me to buy more even though a bit below my own cost basis. I require more yield now days!

      1. Yea. I don’t understand who is buying that along with CNTHP. 10 dollar call risk on the last purchase. I guess they like to live dangerously.

        CNLHP went unsold. How things have changed. I reckon that would have been bought up quite fast just 6 months ago.

    1. I dont like these low yielders now necessarily (dont know if I like anything really for that matter, ha), but I have to own some as stabilizers and trade some bouncers. For example I snagged a full position for me of noncallable SOCGP today and yesterday at 31.50-80. It finished with a trade over $33 today. I will play bouncers such as these. 4.75% non callable ute aint anything to beat chest over but I was buying way below 52 week lows.

  38. SEC jerks strike again. I see AWRY was forced to be sold at $50 today or a 12% yield. This being a railroad issue that has paid consistently since the 1890s. The $50 price today was lower than its been since at least since 2003.

    1. I gave up looking at them it is so frustrating. I can picture brokers basically buying them for themselves. Not clients.

      1. It’s not the brokers buying for themselves, is it? Isn’t it more likely the “experts” who have been created to protect us from ourselves while giving us an opportunity to get out of the mistakes we have made by previously having been stupid enough to buy highly risky securities such as AWRY at terribly inflated prices obviously not reflective of the risks involved? Thank you, oh great experts, for saving me by ripping me off as you have been given the right to do by our heady protectors…….

      1. It has no prospectus because its not a preferred. But it basically is because its a “guaranteed stock”. See railroads issued these back in the 1800s. And there were hundreds and hundreds of rail companies back in the day. This one avoided bankruptcy that many did and kept getting bought out taken over by other rail entities.
        CSX is obligator of payment and owns the majority of the common float. Its buried deep inside the bowels of CSX financials. They eliminated the sham company in the 1990s and just folded it into CSX at that time. It originated in the late 1800’s and has dutifully paid ever since.

        1. Grid, what dividend does it pay and how frequently? I see you refer above to a 12% yield at $50, so that implies something like an annual dividend of $6.00/share?

            1. For AWAY, the current bid / ask on TD Ameritrade is $108 / $121
              With a $6 annual payment, the yield is ~ 6%

              1. Those are dead stale bids, back when it could still trade and have been there ever since. Its an expert market issue now. Those bids were showing when over a hundred shares traded at last week at $50.

  39. Inspired by Grid for another round of: “Stump the Chumps.” (Comes from the NPR program CarTalk ICYDK)

    1) Illiquid but trades most days
    2) Past its first call date, so immediately callable
    3) Current yield ridiculously low
    4) If called you will lose more than 12 years of dividends and suffer a >25% capital loss
    5) I don’t recall this issue ever being discussed on III
    6) Maybe I am missing something, but I do NOT see any reason to own this under any circumstances. In lieu of that I would be a seller today if I held it.

    Name that ticker . . .

    1. No idea but I love the reference back to CarTalk. What an excellent show that was. RIP Tom Magliozzi.

      1. Grid, lets add that it has an unusual, non-standard par value and leave it at that.

        Bur, many years ago I was at Harvard for an event and decided to walk the two miles over to the “Good News” garage. Lo and behold, Ray was there covered in grease working on a car. Got to talk to him for a few minutes. Came across exactly the same in person as on the radio. Could not have been nicer, but he had to get back to work and finish up a car before the end of the day. I was a little surprised because I thought he might have retired to being a king of the operation, but he was working just like the other mechanics.

        The garage is still open for business:

        1. Well that leaves out KSU-. It is trading around $37, but it is about to be redeemed at $37 from a merger. And that isnt non standard anyways. And it definitely isnt an old convertible that has changed its conversion number and you werent aware of that?

            1. I get a one off crazy trade well above par, but not from a daily trader. So you will stump me here if that is what this issue is doing.

              1. Definitely NOT an one off trade like I report on from time to time. Trading at these crazy levels, day in and day out. Easy to understand how a crazy one-off mini flash crash can have strange returns, but even stranger to see it as regular trades. . .

                I would NOT have posted it like this if it was a on-off . . .

                Another clue: trades on NASDAQ, not a pink-sheet “no info” issue.

                  1. Grid, it is not the weed REIT IIPR-A that I highlighted a few months ago. Maybe some of the holders have been hanging around here and sold their holdings since it has come down a bit. It is still showing ~ a $4.37 loss if it is called on its first call date. This new issue which I have never mentioned before makes IIPR-A seem like a “value, deep discount” preferred!

    2. I feel like you might be missing something. It is convertible or what not. To use some basic math a 100 par with a 3% yield… that can cause such a loss would trade for 136 and if bought yields 2.2%. After all, 12 x 3 = 36 bucks.

      With a 4% yield on 100… it would sell for 148. etc.. and etc…

      It almost always ends up being the ones which are uncallable or convertible.

      Otherwise I am stumped. UEPCO comes close in a way for it’s last trade but definitely does not trade often.

      1. FC, like you, I assumed this had to be a convertible, but it is NOT which makes the pricing even more bizarre. . .

    3. Willamette Valley Vineyards Series A Cumulative Redeemable Preferred Stock WVVIP

      Par= 4.15
      Coupon yield= 5.30%, single payment in December every year @ 0.22
      Closed today (11/29) @ 7.00 for a yield of 3.14%
      First call date= 6/1/21
      Pays a 3% premium if called
      Assume you receive 1.03*4.15= 4.2745+ .22 dividend= ~4.50 if called today
      Would lose 7.00-4.50= 2.50 or 11.36 years of dividends and suffer a 36% loss


      Certainly do not understand the pricing of this one. . .

      Obviously we do NOT hold this in any account nor have any open orders. Plus we have NEVER had any open orders. Matter of fact, we didn’t really know this existed until recently because we usually exclude all issues that close under $10.00 from all of our analysis. We just happened to be looking at all data without the $10 limit and noticed this odd Oregon duck. Certainly high up on the strangeness list, kind of like the marijuana REIT IIPR-A offering.

      1. Ok. I would have never guessed that one unless I did a lot of work with a very very good list of preferred shares and some excel calcs. Never heard of it.

      2. You got me there, Tex. I dont see anything to contradict what you stated. If there is a reason why it is so, its beyond me.

      3. There is one thing in the prospectus that stands out as a potential reason for the pricing:
        “Special Benefits for Holders of Series A Redeemable Preferred Stock. Each holder of Series A Redeemable Preferred Stock will be entitled to receive the following additional benefits:
        · priority wine allocations from the two new estate vineyards funded by this offering beginning with the 2017 release;
        · rights to purchase a portion of the Founders’ Block Pinot Noir beginning with the 2018 release;
        · a 25% discount on wine purchases made directly from the winery;
        · priority access to winery suite reservations;
        · reports on winery developments seeking shareholder feedback and involvement;
        · priority access to appointment only vineyard tasting experiences; and
        · certain other items of nominal value.”

        It is not hard to imagine a wine lover willing to fork over a few dollars to get such benefits. However, the prospectus is clear that these benefits are “…not associated with the number of shares of Series A Redeemable Preferred Stock one owns.” So it seems that if you own 1 share, you have just as much right to the benefits as someone owning 1,000 shares. So for those who like to look at such things, is there any evidence of a large number of 1 share purchases? If so, that can’t really explain the $3 premium over par, so maybe there is something else going on.

        I have a feeling at least one person on this site is going to buy 1 share soon and find out more.

        1. I saw that as well but I felt since it did not mention how many shares you needed to buy as you said it could not account for such a long standing high level of purchasing. Not like it was bought at 7ish once or twice. Day after day it has sat at that level for a while now.

          My guess would be a wealthy individual(s) who are buying it up for some reason. Like a status symbol. While at a cheese and wine tasting event you can humble brag you own many many shares. That everything you do at these events are paid for with dividends.

          1. I’m wondering if there really is some portion of these benefits that depend on share count. Like if you get entered into some sort of drawing for priority allocations, maybe you get one ticket per share. Something like that could could easily explain the preferred price.

        1. Well, there you go. The market is efficient, after all, but some times you need to be a wine insider to know it.

          1. I love that link. I have never read a company actually pleading to buyers that they will not redeem their redeemable preferreds, ha.

            In order for the Company to exercise this provision to redeem, it would have to repurchase ALL the Series A shares at once at $4.15 plus a 3% premium. Now, this would require the company to pay back more than $25 million in cash, plus the $10.7 million cash raised in this offering (and still have cash to run the company). There is no possibility this will happen. Why would the company repurchase the Preferred Stock when we are raising money by selling Preferred Stock to fund expansion? Where would we come up with that amount of money at once and at what cost? Why would we incur the wrath of more than 19,000 wine enthusiast investors in doing so when our sales model depends upon their support of the winery? (Preferred stockholder direct purchases of wine and winery services were $2 million last year, covering the cost of the Preferred dividend and administration, making this a self-funded form of capitalizing the company).

            One way to solve the redemption price issue is to start a new Series B with a new registration filing. This would mean we would have to pay more than $100,000 in new legal fees and file for a new Series listing WVVIPB with the NASDAQ and pay those additional annual listing fees. We would also have to go back and earn a nationwide registration for the Series B as we did with the Series A. That’s a lot of work, reducing the total trading pool of the Series A, potentially lessening those investors’ trading price growth as well as those of the Series B — all to solve a redemption price issue that will never be exercised.

            1. Yeah, I smell legal trouble for this company down the road. I can’t believe they say “there is no possibility” of a call. If you own this thing, you better monitor that website frequently because if they ever remove that language, it will be a strong signal that they’re going to call it.

              The prospectus also claims that these special benefits are immaterial to the value of the shares, which has clearly been proven false.

  40. Lets play a game of…Can you name this company that is recently been authorized to do this?
    authority to execute and deliver promissory notes and other evidence of secured or unsecured indebtedness relating to such long-term debt, including but not limited to, loan agreements entered into in connection with such long-term debt;

    c. authority to issue fixed or variable rate secured or unsecured long-term debt in the aggregate principal amount of $65,000,000 to retire, refund, or redeem any or all of the existing five series of cumulative preferred stock (which amount is included in the $740,000,000 of New Debt authorized in Paragraph (1.a) above) and to account for premiums paid in connection with the redemption or reacquisition of the preferred stock as described in Petitioner’s Petition and evidence submitted herein;
    authority to treat all costs incurred to redeem long-term debt that is refunded pursuant to the authority granted herein, unamortized issuance and discount expenses associated with such redeemed issues and the cost of interest rate risk management transactions as described in Petitioner’s Verified Petition and evidence submitted herein;
    i. as an alternative to the sale of all or a portion of $65,000,000 in principal amount of the New Debt described above, authority for Petitioner to issue and sell, from time to time through December 31, 2024, in one or more series, shares of New Preferred Stock with an aggregate par value up to $65,000,000; and
    j. authority to use and apply the cash proceeds and account for the related costs arising from the issue and issuance of the long-term debt, the issuance of new series of preferred stock, and Capital Lease obligations for the purposes of and in accordance with the terms set forth in Petitioner’s Verified Petition and evidence submitted herein.

    1. I will take INDPLS PWR for 1000 Grid. Applied Energy Services? The 5 preferred mentioned made me guess this quickly. Prob wrong. That seems like a large amount of money but I would have to reread it again.

        1. Isn’t AES the parent who owns all of the INDPLS PWR preferred now days? Oof. Is it AES Indiana actually… my bad. Either way it is my guess.

          1. Ha, I have always just called it AES for years and long ago forgot its formal name. . I re read it several times but I couldnt figure out if that was what you meant as your IPL abbreviation through me off, also. They always went under IPL as the abbreviation before AES Indiana was inserted this year.
            So yes you did win $1000, congrats!
            I would be very nervous owning IPWLK now if avoiding call loss is a concern. As document states they have 2 years to do it if they so desire.
            Here is the document. AES Indiana had to get regulatory approval which apparently they did this spring and commission just approved their wishes last month. It seems like they want to do some redeeming, because they specifically requested two different ways if issuing debt was not allowed. The commission gave them their blessing either way.

          2. FC, BTW, do you know that the old IPL has 59.7 million in par valued preferreds yet are requesting $65 million to redeem or reissue?
            Exactly $50 million is the 5.65% series. The other 9.74 million is a mishmash of 4 other old previous tendered floats. And guess what? Their redemption prices are higher than the par value.
            …….and to account for premiums paid in connection with the redemption or reacquisition of the preferred stock as described in Petitioner’s Petition and evidence submitted herein…
            You dont think they really will offer $118 to redeem those old 4% shares do you? Nobody knows and if they even do, when…. But the math implies they are requesting more than the par value in above reference. A potential 18% type cap gain over some period of time versus getting stuck with a 4% perpetual in a potentially rising yield environment. Talk about a possible binary risk outcome!

              1. Grid:

                Great stuff and thanks for the update on the IPALCO preferreds. Obviously, with this new filing, the only series I will be looking to buy is the 4% IPWLP – which is callable at $118/share. Hoping somebody dumps them to me well below $100, but there are only 47,611 shares outstanding.

                The big one (5.65% IPWLK) is callable at $100 and it would be crazy to buy it at current bids of $103.75.

                1. Rob, I own about a couple hundo each of O, P, and G. We shall see. It may take a while.

  41. For those that like to trade the illiquid OTC names, higher commissions are coming from Schwab:

    Over-The-Counter trade pricing will change on December 6, 2021

    You are receiving this communication because you traded one or more Over-The-Counter (OTC) securities within the last 180 days.

    Please be advised that OTC trade pricing changes are taking effect soon. We are making this change due the complexity of trading these securities and to better match broader market pricing.

    This change will only impact U.S. OTC securities. You will continue to pay $0 for online commissions for U.S. exchange-listed equity securities*.

    What this means for your account(s).

    Online commissions for U.S. OTC securities, including unlisted American Depository Receipts (ADRs), and Canadian securities will increase to $6.95 per trade. The new rate will be applied to trades executed starting on December 6, 2021.

    Online trading commissions for OTC securities will be as follows:

    Non-National Market System (NMS) Securities Previous Rate New Rate Effective 12/6/2021
    U.S. Over-The-Counter (OTC) Securities, including unlisted American Depository Receipts (ADRs) $0 $6.95
    Canadian Stock Transactions $0 $6.95

    * In addition, the standard online $0 commission does not apply to transaction-fee mutual funds, fixed-income investments, or trades placed directly on any foreign exchange. Options trades will be subject to the standard $0.65 per-contract fee. Service charges apply for trades placed through a broker ($25) or by automated phone ($5). Exchange process, ADR, and Stock Borrow fees still apply. See the Charles Schwab Pricing Guide for Individual Investors for full fee and commission schedules.

    Which trades will be impacted by this pricing?

    This change will only impact U.S. OTC securities, including unlisted American Depository Receipts (ADRs), and Canadian securities. There will be no changes to online pricing for Foreign OTC securities ($50) or U.S. exchange-listed securities ($0).

    How will I know if a trade is subject to the $6.95 online commission?
    The $6.95 commission will be reflected in the order preview screen for applicable trades. The commission will also be reflected on trade confirms for any executed trades subject to this pricing.

    How do I know if a security trades OTC?
    You can look up a security on the Research tab of If it trades over the counter, you will see an OTC flag next to the symbol.

  42. I see CNLHP is available at 50.50

    Connecticut Light & Power 4.50%
    it is callable at 50.50

    1. It is getting to the point 4.5% is not enough. Now if you want diversification, cumulative, QDI, etc.. It might make sense. In a few months it might sell for under par at the rate the slow decline is going. I feel it is time to get picky. I want to target 4.75% minimum now. Almost 5% is better.

  43. I am not sure what others think but there needs to be a “great reset” in asks for almost all ills as many prepare for interest rates to go up in the near future. I used to watch quite a few but now days that list has shrunk in a dramatic manner as most are pointless to buy slightly above par even with that decent IG rating. On top of that a few good ones are expert market as well shrinking the list more.

    Who exactly is buying NMK-B at 102 that will pay approx 3.5%? Many others at 4-4.25% as well. Oh sure they sell below their call price in many cases but how does that add any protection when they have been outstanding for ages? Does anyone have an opinion what might happen to these over the next 12 months? I feel if you cannot at least get 4.5% and up at their call price there is not much point to them as this stage. I think it will be a quick event where they all reset in pricing to that level. They will have to yield 4.6-4.8% in a hurry to be marketable.

    Or am I wrong here with this line of thinking?

    1. I am concerned about the same risks which is why I only follow a small subset of illiquids that have coupons of 4.75+. I also only try to buy the more liquid illiquids that trade a bit more often than some of Grids favorites. It requires ridiculous patience but it has been a steady performing group and are at least somewhat pinned to par. Occasionally you get lucky like my recent sale of APRDM at 115.

      1. Are you wanting to day trade liquid il-liquids?
        Buy pinned to par and then hope that they are not pinned to par and sell for 15% gains? This has to be a few hundred shares and for a steak dinner or two, right? I have orders out there for months on il-liquids on hoping to buy them, and a few hundred may hit every 2-4 months… I do have 15% sell prices on some of them… but they rarely hit, and if they do i sold well under 100 shares, and might buy a dinner. It has taken several years to accumulate over 7,000 shares of various ones, and does take a lot of effort to get them back if you ever sell them.

    2. FC, I think you have to be cautious here. But the beauty of these is they are a quasi non correlating preferred asset. Yes, there can and will at some point be reset in pricing. But, unlike the market liquid sisters they will not do so in tandem. So if you see some dovetail that could give you warning. Also as long as their yields are above market liquids ala, the CMS 4.2% as an example they wont move much. But if or when liquids dovetail, you should use that as a warning sign if you arent looking to just hold.
      I still own several, but still tweak back and forth for amusement gains. But recently my focus (like many) is leaning towards stretching for yield in higher payers that have some pinned to par past call traits. I dont see it as a cure all, I would rather have everything I got in those 7.12% annualized Ibonds near term. Or better yet some of Camrocs 9-10% Ibonds bought with a couple percent fixed component added on!
      As far as NMK-B and C goes, I have a theory of why they trade so high in terms of their puny yield. They are one of very few illiquids that actually trade on NYSE. And no I have no interest in these two either.

  44. Possible buys/sells? Many III posters discuss their strategy of “playing the spread” on preferreds/baby/terms. They might look for issues that have a “wide” aka large difference between the bid and ask prices. This is another metric used to quantify how “illiquid” an issue is. If the bid/ask spread is wide, it indicates that there is not an active market, otherwise competitors would drive down the bid/ask spread. For those looking to play the spread, maybe they can raise their bid and/or lower their ask until a trade is consummated. Some of the spreads are truly remarkably wide IMO and MIGHT offer an opportunity. Obviously there are other factors that would enter into any decisions, but it you are interested in buying any of these OR selling them, this list might be a good starting point.
    At ~ 3:45PM NYSE time today (11/12), I took a snapshot of 776 issues to study their spread. I purposely waited until the end of the day giving issues more time to trade. Plus broadly speaking, spreads narrow over the course of the day. It goes without saying that this data was only accurate at the exact instant it was captured. Wait literally one or two seconds and the data will be different. Wait a day or two and it will be even more different. Understand that all of the 15C2-11 issues will NOT be included since they do not have bid/ask prices displayed. I am showing the 35 issues with the widest spreads which range from 75% down to 4.7%. Highly liquid issues trade with ~ 0.1% spreads, so these 35 are real outliers.
    I am attempting to get around the III spam filter which killed my last big data post, which accounts for the strange format I have chosen. It is:
    Ticker, “Did it trade on 11/12?”, % of how wide the spread is, Last trade price, bid, ask.

    IPWLN No 75% 100.01 95.01 170
    UEPCN No 51.9% 106 100.01 155
    IMPHP No 38% 15.8 15 21
    CETXP No 23.7% 2.15 2.13 2.64
    UEPCO No 22.9% 156 110.35 146
    IPWLP No 20.4% 98 95 115
    NMPWP No 20.1% 82 72 88.5
    NEWEN No 16.8% 132.75 132.75 155
    IMPHO No 16.3% 3 3 3.49
    IPWLK No 13.9% 105.5 105.38 120
    CTLPP No 13.8% 38.85 33.65 39
    SBNCM No 13% 17.35 17.35 19.6
    HAWEM No 11% 23.2 22.85 25.4
    AILLM No 10.5% 103.26 103.4 114.25
    SOCGM No 10.4% 35 34.36 38
    PCG-C No 10.3% 25.94 25.26 27.94
    CNLHP No 10.1% 52 50.75 56
    CYCCP No 9.9% 7 6.81 7.5
    FGBIP No 9.2% 26.55 26.55 28.99
    PPWLM No 8.8% 170.63 155 170
    PCG-I Yes 8.1% 23.84 23.84 25.78
    CNPWM No 7.3% 49.24 47.8 51.4
    HAWLN No 6.5% 27.5 24.7 26.5
    CNLHN No 6.2% 52 48.8 52
    PCG-G No 5.8% 24.34 24.32 25.74
    CNTHP No 5.8% 58.97 58.27 61.7
    PEI-B Yes 5.6% 9.79 9.62 10.17
    PCG-B Yes 5.6% 27.42 26.7 28.24
    PCG-H No 5.6% 22 22.25 23.48
    CNLPL Yes 5.4% 61 58.15 61.45
    WHLRP Yes 5.3% 8.42 8.05 8.5
    PYT Yes 5.2% 24.75 24.65 25.93
    NSARP No 5% 105.5 99.53 104.85
    NM-H Yes 4.9% 14.37 14.35 15.06
    HAWEN No 4.7% 21.09 20.9 21.9

    We do not have any open buy/sell orders on any of these in any account we manage, so we are NOT your competition.

    1. IMPHP/IMPHO does not currently pay a div. The preferred are in lawsuit land. A mess. CETXP div suspended as well. PCG-C, PCG-I, PCG-H, and PCG-B all suspended. WHLRP suspended. PEI-B ditto. NM-H no div. Maybe more. Those I just recognize or quickly looked up.

      Now some have such small floats they barely trade. IPWLN for example. If I can trust quantum there is only 13,000 shares left out of 50,000. A Tender offer by IPL sucked so much up. There was only 50K shares to begin with. Here is a SEC doc of interest to get an idea of how many existed in the past.

      My point is the spread will always be there for these situations especially when current holders do not want to realize rates are going up and they have to start recognizing the fact to sell them they have to come down quite a bit. People with bids know this. IPWLN is worth 105 tops right now and even that is over paying a bit considering the call risk. One can find easier pickings for less call risk and perhaps a touch higher yield with the same IG rating. But why sell at all when it pays and pay and pays unless some “chump” will over pay which is getting less and less likely as each day goes by right now. But to circle back.. only 13K shares… Not much to sell eh?

      So I would have to whittle your list down quite a bit to begin analyzing it from the beginning to see if any opportunity really exists. Heck.. I see one last trade price is me because I wanted an invite to the summer BBQ. Let me see if I have the energy in a moment to redo your list removing some suspended.

      1. Now I realize if someone owns suspended paying preferred trade opportunities can still exist but they need a different type of analysis I am not ready to get into. I hope this helps. Lets take a peak now.

        IPWLN No 75% 100.01 95.01 170
        UEPCN No 51.9% 106 100.01 155
        UEPCO No 22.9% 156 110.35 146
        IPWLP No 20.4% 98 95 115
        NMPWP No 20.1% 82 72 88.5
        NEWEN No 16.8% 132.75 132.75 155
        IPWLK No 13.9% 105.5 105.38 120
        CTLPP No 13.8% 38.85 33.65 39
        SBNCM No 13% 17.35 17.35 19.6
        HAWEM No 11% 23.2 22.85 25.4
        AILLM No 10.5% 103.26 103.4 114.25
        SOCGM No 10.4% 35 34.36 38
        CNLHP No 10.1% 52 50.75 56
        CYCCP No 9.9% 7 6.81 7.5
        FGBIP No 9.2% 26.55 26.55 28.99
        PPWLM No 8.8% 170.63 155 170
        CNPWM No 7.3% 49.24 47.8 51.4
        HAWLN No 6.5% 27.5 24.7 26.5
        CNLHN No 6.2% 52 48.8 52
        CNTHP No 5.8% 58.97 58.27 61.7
        CNLPL Yes 5.4% 61 58.15 61.45
        PYT Yes 5.2% 24.75 24.65 25.93
        NSARP No 5% 105.5 99.53 104.85
        HAWEN No 4.7% 21.09 20.9 21.9

        Out of the only two that traded CNLPL buyer sure does not mind call risk to get higher yield and PYT is a truly odd 3% plus 3 month libor which is garbage to me. 3 month libor will never amount to much ever again in my humble opinion if I understand the prospectus properly.

      2. FYI, the IMH lawsuit was finalized a few months ago. IMPHP had all of the cumulative dividends back to 2009 or so restored. Alas, the company doesn’t have the capital to pay them, but that’s a different story. IMPHO no longer has a dividend and never will; it just has a $25 liquidation value.

        As FC pointed out, these are high risk issues and playing the spread could be a bit dangerous.

      3. FC, thanks for the comment about separating paying/non-paying issues. I maintain that data and should have included it with the list, possibly separating them into two lists. I will do that if I ever post a revised list. That said, many non-paying issues have been discussed on III. The IMPHO/IMPHP and PCG-* issues in particular. The last comment from Justin on CETXP about a year ago was that it was paying its dividend in stock, but I am not sure it is still pertinent. Bottom line to me is that some III’ers do trade in non-paying issues which is why I included them on the list.

        The list still might be useful. For example, if we held IPWLN, which is still paying its dividend, would we consider selling at something less than $170 for an issue callable today @$101? We do not hold it in any account, but if we did we would be willing to sell for <$170.

        1. CETXP still does pay in stock.
          the other one that pays pretty consistently in stock is NCRRP.

    1. I’ve requested that Schwab make IPWLO tradeable online. However, you can now call in trades for IPWLO and they’ll waive the commission.

      Bids and Asks are now being displayed as well.

  45. AILIM for 102. call price is 103. Pays 4.7% at 100. so approx 4.6% at 102. Not bad for IG rating, not great. I picked some up and appears more for sale.

    Wanted to alert anyone who may be interested before 4pm.

    1. Looks like TD Ameritrade would charge me $6.95 to buy AILIM but the cost at is -0-..

      1. It rarely trades but it got down close to $101 today. I put lead bid in at $101.25 after that and I saw 100 shares sold, so I assumed they were mine. I got screwed somehow and didnt get them, and then I gave up. Interesting there have been over 2000 shares available for over a year at $104. The old float is less than 20,000 shares.

        1. Hi Gridbird,IPLDP has been trading fairly weak lately,will they come calling maybe?Thanks for your insight B/L

          1. Lou, I think this one is toast. A week or so ago someone here posted it was served a redemption notice. So I doubt there is much meat on the bone left here.

              1. IPLDP is going to be redeemed for ~ $25.32 on 12/15/21. For some reason, somebody decided to sell 100 shares @ 23.33 yesterday (11/12) morning @ 6:35AM before the regular open @ 8:30AM. Seems like a strange time to throw away ~$200 to me.

                We were not involved in the trade in any account.

    1. You beat me SN. Sold mine @ $111.70. I’ve always assumed these occasional gifts happen when market orders are placed by accident. Yet, after my sell order hit there was over 500 shares on the bid @ $112.00. Who in their right mind would consciously bid so much higher than the trading norm? Not complaining though. Got lucky on NSARO last week too

  46. KTBA has been trading between 28 to 29 all day. Somone unloading
    I know its now on OTC market list, but still a bargain at these rates (6-6.2% yield), with semi annual ex Div coming up at end of Nov too. Jumpred in with couple hundred more

    1. Sadly I cannot buy even if I wanted to. Closing only for me. I imagine you are using schwab.

    1. Bur, I thought it went exD in May and November if memory serves. Dont remember specific date, and there was quite bit of lag time between exD and payment. I wouldnt worry about getting paid, but it will take a while.

  47. How do people handle things like these illiquids in their estate planning? It seems having a few of these $0 items scattered through ones’ regular and retirement accounts could be a valuation and tax basis mess when its time to split things up.

    1. Make sure that you bequeath them to the heirs and not leave them to be sold by the executor, because they 1. Will have to sell them if you don’t specify otherwise, except with the court’s permission, which can be obtained but it is costly in time and money
      And make sure they are an even number or a multiple of the number of heirs, if more than 2.
      And because they are illiquid, they are like other things that have to be planned far in the future, like African Grey parrots and some species of turtles kept as pets.
      Just make sure you tell the lawyer drafting the estate plan.
      it gets tricky when one of the heirs doesn’t want them, because it throws off the equalness between the beneficiaries.

    2. To Justin:
      I suggest you sit down with an estate attorney. Each State has different laws and often the laws change.

  48. If anyone cares to know UEPEP has a small sale going on. 100 pref. Callable at 102.47. IG rated and not a financial… Pays 4.56% if you bought at 100. Currently a nice amount of shares are available at 102.25. So right now that would be about 4.46%. Now ex-dix just passed so the first payout is approx 3 months away.

    So if you thought about buying those new bank preferred like WFC/BAC/JPM/MS at 4.25% this might be a viable choice for a small boost. Most are perpetual anyway. Or if you have a small gain you could switch if the ex-div dates play along with the game.

    I bought a small slug to track it more closely in case the person dumps with some low ball orders.

    1. Fc, unless someone is trying a flip, I dont understand an allure of 4.25% IG banks or fair quality 4.6% bank non cums, when one can get better and safer yields in illiquid utes. I picked up 100 shares yesterday of 4.72% par APRDP under $102 that has a $102.18 redemption price. The yield was higher and the credit quality higher too.
      Of course a reasoned aurgument would be to avoid them all. But I presently buy these as counter balance purchases to my high yeild issues I own.

    2. UEPEP @ 101. Seems like a few hundred shares if anyone cares. I bought a few to round out my position to an even number.

  49. WTREP… I forget what I have here and maybe others do also. So I will post this. We should be receiving an annual yield of 7.6785% presently. Plus remember it has an owner optional 2034 redemption also, if it has not been redeemed.
    Dividends accrue (i) from (and including) June 30, 2014 to (but excluding) June 30, 2019 (the Fixed Rate Period) at 8½% of the $25 per share liquidation preference per annum (equivalent to $2.125 per share per annum); and (ii) from (and including) June 30, 2019 (the Floating Rate Period), at a floating rate per annum (the Floating Rate) equal to three-month U.S. dollar LIBOR plus 667.85 basis points; provided, that, if, at any time, the three-month U.S. dollar LIBOR shall be less than 1%, then
    the three-month U.S. dollar LIBOR for purposes of calculating the Floating Rate at the time of such calculation shall be 1%. Other than the right to payment of accrued but unpaid dividends, if any, on the preference shares, the holders of the preference shares are not entitled to share in any other dividends or distributions of our company.
    Optional redemption by the holder
    Each holder of the preference shares may at any time on or after June 30, 2034, at such holder’s sole option and election, require us to redeem in cash any or all of the preference shares held by such holder at the $25 per share liquidation preference plus an amount equal to all accumulated and
    unpaid dividends thereon to the date of redemption, whether or not declared (an Optional Redemption).
    To effect a redemption of the preference shares, the holder of record thereof shall make a written demand for such redemption to us at our principal executive offices setting forth therein the number of preference shares to be redeemed and the certificate or certificates representing such preference shares, if any. If we do not have sufficient funds legally available to redeem all preference shares which the holders thereof have required us to redeem, we shall redeem a pro rata portion of each such holder’s preference shares out of funds legally available therefor, based on the respective amounts which would otherwise be payable in respect of the preference shares to be redeemed if the legally available funds were sufficient to redeem all such shares, and shall redeem the remaining shares to have been redeemed as soon as practicable after we have funds legally available therefor.

  50. CNLHP which is 50 dollar preferred… which can be called for 50.50 is selling for 51. It is 4.5% IG rated and QDI. I realize it is not the best deal but better then 4.25% which is going around right now. Seems to have quite a few shares available which is not readily apparent when looking at level II.

    If you are worried about interest rates rising this is probably not a great choice. CHTHN will get you more yield but greater call risk downside.

    Things have been pretty boring lately for ills. Deals have been hard to find. I always welcome any hot tips!

    1. NSARO which is 4.78%. 100 pref, callable at 102.80.. high IG rated QDI.. selling for 103.25 which is not terrible.

      1. NSARO available at 103.40. Once again sitting around longer then normal from the past. While this pays above 4.5% I already have enough at a lower cost.

        1. My buys for NSARO hit every 3-4 months at $102, but takes patience. For same investment grade, CBKLP is better value in my opinion for the current ask of $101.75

    2. CNLHP available at 50.75. Sadly it does not pay more then 4.5% so I no longer want to add. Callable at 50.50. Pays 4.5% at purchase price of 50.

      Here comes the revaluation of ills. This would have been snapped up instantly a while ago.

    3. This isnt no deal, but I sold an illiquid the other day and tried to snag IPWLG mostly out of boredom not doing much recently. I wanted a 100 but only got 65, which is mostly useless. Its 4.6% at $100 with $103 redemption. Its last trade was Feb. 2020. There isnt many shares. I dont consider this a great deal, but I wanted it so I own it. At least it wont get redeemed at a loss like CBKLP.
      But it may drop to $50 at some point which is worse, than a call ha.

    1. jb:

      I was just happy to see the bid up to $110 (put the yield down to 3.64%). Finally waved goodbye to my 4% non-redeemable INPAP. Wish I could send a dozen roses to the “fat-finger” fellow that put in a market order that caused this 40,000 share issue to trade at $150+.

      It has been a helluva ride.

      1. Rob, actually it is redeemable. Quantum is incorrect. I checked their annual SEC filings a few years ago. Doesnt seem like a call is any concern though I would suspect.

  51. Ask on CNTHN is 52.25. That’s a 4.75% annual return (div of 4.96% annual). Ex Div passed last week, which may be why the ask is relatively low. Redemption is at 50.50 so there is a bit of principal risk but the issue has been out there since 1958. Real risk, like for all issues discussed here, is interest rate increases. At times over the past 10 years, CNTHN has traded in the 90s. I have a full position and not ready to buy more. Quality institutional issue (BBB+ by S&P) with very little downside, I think.

      1. The trade off of the risk is that 5.5% QDI yield at that approx price. No one can predict what they will do but I would pass on it myself. I would not want to lose more then 7 dollars per share to take a swing at it.

        Plus if they were to redeem a few preferred series that would be the MOST likely candidate to go first. Knowing my luck a few months later they call it.

    1. Please allow me to correct an error. CNTHN is a $50 par issue. When rates were much higher, it traded in the high 30s and 40s. I said it traded in the 90s (correct for a $100 par issue). The opportunity to buy at $52.25 has passed. It will resurface eventually.

  52. Did anyone manage to snag those 100 shares of DMRRP at 66 today? Ticks me off I cannot easily place day orders online. I would have to call daily, I assume, to place orders. That was a 6% yield right there.

    LTSA is trading for approx 11 dollars a share. There are people out there vacuuming up daily deals.

  53. There’s a standing ask of 102.50 for UEPEP-redeems at 102.47, goes ex next week. 4.47%

    1. That is a lot of shares available. A metric ton. 4.45% yield. Someone is getting out of this somewhat lower yielding util preferred. Interesting but not sure I want to bite. Amazing how interest rates go up a tiny bit and now all of a sudden an IG rated ute with a reasonable yield becomes so much less desirable. Only 150 shares out of 20K offered traded so far when I looked.

        1. Sure that changes things a bit but if interest rates go up UEPEP might be selling for a 100 even in 6 months. Covid really changed things and it is a big question mark how this will all play out. More opportunities may come about. Put in a GTC bid of 100-101 and you might get it when the seller of 20K shares gets tired of so few bites. Better off skipping the div in that case.

          1. Some of these are sagging and others arent so I trade the swings on them for easy but modest gains. For example last buy was a couple says ago of APRDP. Its a 4.72% par, $102.18 call price I bought at $100.83. So like you said, FC keep eyes out on liquidity and you may catch a drop.

  54. Ktba went double black diamond. How do you become an expert liquidity provider.

    Called my broker they profess to only electronically processing orders now. Called the bond desk they can only gauge me on corporate or government debt.

    Nobody got the how does expert market work crayon book.

      1. Kept upsizing my orders until they stopped getting rejected immediately.

        Buy Open 100 – slmnp
        Buy open 4000 – ktba

        Will be interesting if I get some fills.

        1. Interesting. You mean we can buy these securities if we place a large enough order? Maybe that makes one an “expert”. Which broker are you using?

          1. Royalbank.

            Proof will be if an order actually fills. Essentially the order desk person hinted at increasing my order size. So I kept increasing.

            Orders are still active set expiry in December.

              1. Yes, Micahc, could you specify the broker?

                I’ve had some luck getting a small partial fill on SLMNP at Schwab.

              2. Have 2 account full service brokerage and dominion securities account with rbc.

                No fills so I will call the desk again to check status.

                1. I assume that the only reason you can enter orders is because it’s full service. What are the transaction fees?

                  Keep in mind that this is grey market trading now and the normal trade execution rules don’t apply. Trades can be executed at other brokers that are lower than your bid and that’s just the way it is because they don’t have to share bids and offers with each other. It can be wildly frustrating thinking you might be able to buy something cheap and it never actually comes your way.

                  1. $10 per trade. I have a feeling that manually calling on clients behalf between brokers to setup trade is beyond the staffing availability of many brokerages.

                    1. Micah, when it worked for me, I had a good broker by luck, and he would work for me. When I said “call down to the floor”, he knew what that met and called all dealers to see if he could round up some. But, when I got the wrong broker…..a waste of time!
                      Im not even trying because my brokerages wont allow trading only sells. So calling wont do any good here as the old ones werent banned, they just needed effort behind the scenes to try to round them up.

                  2. That is correct, Karma. Back when there were a few nice grey market issues, it was great adventure. Some of accounts could hit on certain issues and others not and vice versa. There many times were not quotes but “indications” when I would try the call in route. Some were accurate and some were dry wells when the order was placed.
                    For people who are unfamiliar, a crude example is this… You are inside a mall and you need to get to The Apple Store for a specific Apple only sold product. But you are blind folded and keep stumbling into the wrong store. No matter what you grab, it isnt going to be in there.
                    If your brokerage is not “The Apple Store” you arent going to get a purchase.

                2. Called helpless desk. Agent could not locate any ask prices. Said typical otc disclaimer.

                  When I flipped my orders to Market order for fun they immediately got rejected. Just discovered a brokerage bug.

                  1. A) Due to the lack of liquidity, you can’t place a market order in grey market.
                    B) Good lord, you are lucky that you can’t! You could get filled at ridiculous prices.

    1. I am keeping my eyes on it. It has dropped from 8 years of dividend premium to 4+ years. Still not at a 3yr low, so I am still on sidelines.

      1. NEWEN is not callable. With a 6% coupon and a $125 price, essentially you’re buying an institutional bond at 4.8%. They’re not making these any more! What’s more, the last National Grid filing (New England Power is owned by the British “National Grid”) indicated that there were slightly more than 11,000 shares outstanding. NEWEN seldom trades. Seems to me to be a great deal. Have bought on the dips over the years, but today’s dips are about as good as it’s gotten over the past decade (bought a slug at $125 and a few shares at $120–all lower than any price I previously paid). There was one trade today at $105. Probably one or two shares and, likely, a mistake on the ask. Get ’em while you can!

        1. Nothing wrong with the purchase. I just think a lot of us are looking for that 5% and up opportunities. Good solid payer though so that has to be considered versus a slmnp at 5.8% for example. I would sleep much better with your purchase for sure.

          I would be a buyer of newen at 110 in a heart beat.