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Preferred Stocks and Baby Bonds Close in on New Highs

The average $25/shares baby bond and preferred stock is closing in on $26–actually up a dime on the week to $25.88.

The average share has not been this high since 2/21/2020–almost 14 months ago. Shares had peaked in early February, 2020 in the $26.08 area and we have had a hell of a ride since that time.

It seems like there continues to be ‘desperation’ for yield as we see all the laggards sectors – i.e. shippers, mREITs etc powering ahead.

The 10 year treasury has backed off to 1.66% as it would seem that ‘inflation expectations’ have been tempered for now–what will set off a new round of expectations and interest rate increases?

I guess I’ll be just like the Fed–don’t try to anticipate inflation–just wait until I can clearly see it. Maybe we are entering a ‘goldilocks’ phase for the next 3-6 months relative to interest rates. Well I am no predictor of rates so I guess I can just watch and remain mostly invested.

55 thoughts on “Preferred Stocks and Baby Bonds Close in on New Highs”

  1. Mike, thanks for your post. You’ve saved me a lot of typing by expressing my sentiments to a tee. My thanks to everyone on this site, especially you Tim for all your efforts. This is only my second post in 2 years so don’t expect me to hog the bandwidth.

    OK, I wanted this to be a response to Mike Havel’s post of 4/10 7:54 am but I don’t know how to post a reply. Help!

  2. New highs in prices suggest continued low coupons for new issues and more redemptions on the way.
    Tim, you have a fabulous website. I know that you receive many requests. May I please indulge?
    Was wondering if you might have considered adding a new tab at the top of the screen listing a “quick and dirty” rolling short list of preferreds and baby bonds which have been recently retired/ redeemed and especially a list of prospective redemptions for which notices have been published? Something simple like ABC-D with the prior redemption date and announced prospective redemptions with the future redemption date with a designation if the redemption was/will be partial or full. Would anybody else have an interest in a handy list of recently retired/redeemed issues and issues with redemption notices pending to check? If so, please reply. If there is little interest, then the request is moot.
    I know that you are a busy man. So if it is not feasible, that is perfectly OK.
    You have demonstrated a calm level head during the uncertainty of market storms and should be commended for it. Tim- the voice of reason as the markets go nuts who steers a straight and steady course through the fog of uncertainty.
    I am still watching the 10 year. Hope springs eternal.

    1. Hi Dave–yes I have considered that–as always my time is so limited that I would like to be able to keep it up to date when I do it–will see what I can figure out.

  3. Making a killing in this market….doesn’t matter what you buy as long as it’s still under $25 it’s going up

  4. I’m selling into strength. Anything with a 2 handle YTC is a candidate. ….But the thing is I’m always re-investing on other side. Where to go is the Q. For some its SDY VIG etc or CEF’s. For others I need to stay with 25 dollar pfds. The field is thinning!!

    ….Even the McReits are powering towards 25. They say hope is not a good strategy. That’s all I had with them this time last year. What a crazy market

  5. I cant believe what the accounts are showing. I am close to 6 figures income in 1Qtr. This horse is screaming down the racetrack. Also helped that I have loaded up for the past several months on higher risk preferreds, and with all the money printing, they won’t go bankrupt for the near term. I have been cashing out which is rare for me. Keeping only pinned to par and illiquids. I will only be buying the latter. I will be buying some water toys for the lake.

    1. @Mr. Conservative. Very smart to trim here/cash out and put some $$ on the table. Reminds me of years ago when I got in way early on GreenHunter, Magnum, Millers and a bunch of other basin preferreds in the $15-$20 range with giant double digit coupon/yields. Next thing I know they are all trading way over par.

      But eventually all good things come to end and as you and others obviously know here, especially with the more illiquid securities, when the selling starts these prices fall faster than jenga blocks.

      1. Theta, we may have a different opinion of what an illiquid is, but I know Mr. Conservatives view on an illiquid. And if history repeats itself through every cycle I have tracked starting with 08-09 crisis, its the illiquids that hold up the longest and dont fall as far either. The liquids crater first as they are more actively traded and are in funds which dump also.

        1. @Gridbird. Right I should have provided context for my specific reference. So regarding those preferreds I mentioned. I had been sitting on them forever and just taking for granted the massive premium over par relative to the aggregate value of my trading account.

          I can’t recall daily volumes but I was actually OK on some as I trimmed and liquidated over time. But in particular, I remember the Green Hunter preferreds. There were not many buyers during this particular window and some folks wanted out as there was a major trajectory change on the table for the path of the company. It had already been weak on price and lost par. I watched it then drop from $23 handle down to $15s in a relative short period of time (a single trading day or two.) I ended up getting filled no where near what I thought how this would have played out.

          I find this current action on the preferreds/BBs fascinating because you could actually see this a few weeks ago when the hype started about the rising treasury yields. There was that one single day dump where we received gifts and opportunities to buy many preferreds under par vs. not having been in that range for a year or more.

          But here we are now making higher highs. Will be interesting to see how much more upside there is and how long this price level will hold up.

        2. You pegged that Grid. We have that same understanding of an illiquid. The investors that own what I would call illiquids, put that stock certificate (if you will) in their actual sock drawer. They stick it in the far back of the drawer and beyond the normal reach of fetching the socks in the same drawer. They don’t look at these investments. They don’t want to sell you those investments. You would have to knock on their door, ask to see their drawers, and then take these investments at gun point. Because of this, these investments don’t move much at all during panics. When they drop, they are at a fraction of the other BB and preferreds. If they DO move, these moves are closed/reverted back usually in a day. The way that I buy them is when we are lucky to have Grid or a few others post here about the sudden dip and then I execute a trade order called a “snatch and grab.” These are the extreme ones, and there are others that might trade a few thousand per week. You can count on these for rocks in your portfolio.

          1. I don’t think there is anything special about an illiquid issue that gives any desire to want it more than another. Most of the time, you should want it less, given the same price as a comparable security.

            The primary reason for illiquidity is that an issue is tiny. Since there aren’t many shares to trade, it’s no surprise that volume is low. Because volume is low, spreads get wide. Wide spreads discourage trading even further.

            Some on this site think it is an advantage to buy an illiquid because it doesn’t trade when the market has a big sell off. That’s an illusory reason, if you ask me. If you are taking on illiquidity, you should want extra yield compared to comparable risks. That’s all that matters. If you can’t trade it one day when you want to, you’ll find that illiquidity has considerable downsides.

            P.S. The vast majority of my portfolio is not very liquid, but I am comfortable because I am getting paid to accept it. The way some of you go ga-ga over 4% illiquid preferreds, however, makes no sense to me.

            1. Its a piece of the puzzle…Not the puzzle itself… If you are versed in recent history of 2013 taper tantrum, 2016 rate hikes, Dec 2018 credit spread blow out, March 2020, you will know the collapse of preferred market. Each one of the previous cycles I was fully vested and yet made money through the downdraft. How? By selling the illiquids with strong standing bids under and rotating into the roached out liquids. I have never had trouble selling. But entry point is important and you spread out the shares amongst various issues. You dont buy 2000 shares of a 4000 share float and expect to have a positive outcome dumping…. If you dont sell, they served as portfolio ballasts..
              And you dont even want to look at 2008-09. Most $25 pars were roached out into single digits. Those same old 4% illiquids generally lost 30% or so during that time while the others were down 75% or more. It definitely isnt for everyone no question. But I have the charts as proof. I dont disagree with what you said, but history and the charts dont agree with your conclusion despite it being a very logical one.

                1. Ever checked out OTC markets bid/ask pricing on high quality illiquid utes? I dont think you follow them much or you would not have said that. Because if there werent strong standing bids under them already, I would be the one having bids on them. But the bids are already too high. MSEXP for example has a current standing bid of $140 and there isnt even 1 share for sale.
                  I just snagged me 200 shares of a US utility common stock on OTC with a 6% dividend. It has only traded about 1200 shares in over 2 years. It was more of a trophy case purchase though.

                  1. Grid,
                    There is a difference between “illiquid” and “low volume”. If you can reliably sell at a good price, that is not illiquid, even if it trades infrequently. Now, the fact that it is a one-sided market with no ask complicates it because liquidity normally implies the ability to buy, too, but the way you are looking at them as potential sources of cash when other opportunities arise, the liquidity only matters on the bid side.

            2. Karma – you are partially right and wrong at the same time regarding illiquid securities.

              1) I have a number of illiquid securities in my portfolio. They do provide some downside potential and are good holdings to my positions. Have a number of those and don’t plan to sell any time in the future. So on this part you are correct. Good holdings for me overall.

              2) In regards to the “Sock Drawer” holdings and other illiquid issues here, you are incorrect about this board. I have dozens of messages from SA investors stating that a few members on this board only use this site (and SA and Silicon Investor, etc) to buy up small illiquid issues, state they will “never sell” and then when I look the next day on my Level 2 screen there are hundreds of shares for sale. One poster said it best when she stated that the Level 2 screen for sale looked like the “Stormtroopers Moving into Poland.” So while they state on this board “I’ll never sell” the truth on Level 2 clearly states differently.

              Happy investing to everyone!

              1. I am genuinely convinced that the high-volume commenters here post almost nothing that should be taken at face value. (I know this comes as a surprise to no one.) Mention of the “sock drawer” is a clear sign that shenanigans are afoot.

                1. You busted me, Larry! I posted here on WTREP just to pump the price and make a few bucks on the exit. It’s actually a crappy stock but I thought I could run a pump and dump and make it worth my time. 3,000 shares times, say, 3+ bucks, why that’s $10,000! The old lady and me can finally afford to get hitched!

                  PS – I’m joining HDO next week. Look for my first HDO post soon: “ALPO – a great new ETF for seniors looking to eat well in retirement.” 25% off to the first 5,000 subscribers!

                  1. Keep pumping it Bob, as it is my biggest hold! And also if you have any more spare time convince the suites to not ever redeem it also. An issue of that quality, live floater, and higher relative yield is always nice to have as an option at proper entry point…. Did you see Moron and the Boys walked the plank on GEO common today? Nothing like recommending “safe income for retirees” only to see yet another divi cut fiasco.
                    Tex, I agree… Im generally too lazy to put a standing ask price up, but if I see a high bid and I can find better value with the money I will sell. Im more focused on liquids now, but I will shuffle around the illiquids based on bid and asks of various issues if opportunity arises.
                    Karma, Our verbiage may be different, but if I use your terminology I dont personally disagree at all with anything you stated.

                    1. You two pumping WTREP why just the other day I was asking 2WR if I should park more money in it sitting at 25.28 and here the 2 of you have it up to 25.47 today
                      Thanks a lot guys

                  2. I own WTREP. Help me understand why I should keep it. As far as I can tell it is redeemable now and has a 8.5% coupon. Why would it not get called soon?

                    1. Hi eoz3106. There have been a few good discussions on pros and cons of keeping WTREP that have already been posted here. I wish in our post we could tag the symbols and then you could search on symbols. Otherwise you could pull up the common thread pages like like reader initiated alerts and search, but its kinda painful.

                      Bob has some excellent comments on why to keep. There was also several threads on the recommendation to buy it before the last dividend payment. So without too much repetition… some of us are holding because:
                      1) we got in before the divy payment in the $25.20 range and the div payment covered that and more.
                      2) where else to stick your money on an investment that has a high probability of being called when merger happens?
                      3) the combined entities of both companies makes this a safer investment if it continue to live on for a bit after the merger
                      4) why not let it ride while the voting had to take place (this has finally happened, but we didnt know the result in Feb), the merger has to take place, and the accounting and finance departments then have to call it. As in bob’s words, keep your fingers crossed until they call it.
                      5) This is not an 8.5% coupon, as it is floating. It is 6.6785% + 3 month libor (or minimum of 1%). Where else can you get this kind of rate in anything in the market with great odds you will get your money back for a short term investment? Many ones that have a high probability of being called in the next 3-4 months are at a neg ytc or the yield is well under 3%. Now it has joined the camp along with others in the neg ytc camp.

                      Right now is not a good time to buy, but in Feb it was, when the recommendation was on Tim’s site. You can sell it, but then have to ask yourself the famous question of: “what do i buy after selling it now in this kind of market?”
                      Disclosure. I purchased 6,000 shares when it dipped and in about 5 weeks got $2,800 in dividends, which is great for the small amount of time owing it. I am holding because of the above reasons.

                2. I don’t think so, in my opinion the folks on this site are aboslutely honest and decent. At least during the 2-3 years that I have been here, I have learned a lot about prefs and made good money on them.

                  1. Exactly Yuriy. I have had the opposite experience as well with most on this site sharing good experiences and information. To me, high-volume posting individuals is where great content can be found. Now, if i can ideally search on specific individuals to see all their posts… :-).

                    I don’t see a statistical correlation/relationship between high posts and variables like poor information. I think comments like the above are introducing subjective probability based on personal bias judgement. Statements like that are also just as distracting as comments involving politics.

                    One thing that I have personally been working on is watching my salt intake. The interactions and outcomes with others have improved.

                    1. Mr Conservative, i agree wholeheartedly, i don’t post often but i am here everyday reading the comments. I too have been around a couple of years and in that time I have seen nothing but helpful comments. In fact i have received a lot of actionable information from these pages.

                    2. Some people like to post only to complain while failing to see the irony that entails from their own posts of no value. But hey, I enjoy all comments. I must have a lower salt intake than you, Mr. C as I even like crazy peoples posts too. You will too in time by lowering that salt intake!

                  2. What Yuriy said – I have learned a lot about how to learn about preferreds and the markets from following the discussions here. Tim has attracted some very experienced, knowledgeable and generous commenters to his site. I check the discourse almost every day. And fwiw I’m holding small WTREP positions in a couple of accounts.

                    1. Grid – Are you sure this announcement has anything to do with the original merger or any hurdle that might have remained preventing Arch/WTRE from calling WTREP? This appears to be something that has to do with the normal day to day operation of WTRE itself, not having anything to do with the merger…. I know you’re more likely to have delved deeper into the weeds on this kind of stuff than I might these days, however, the January 14a Proxy statement https://investors.watfordre.com/static-files/ac1b490a-16a2-423e-a395-d30d73b95260 makes no mention of a need for any regulatory approval in France having to do with the Arch/Watford acquisition nor mention of Axeria IARD… p 5 says “regarding governmental approvals needed, Consummation of the merger is subject to obtaining required regulatory approvals from the U.S. Federal TradeCommission, the European Commission, the Turkish Competition Authority, the Bermuda Monetary Authority,the New Jersey Department of Banking and Insurance, the California Department of Insurance and the FinancialServices Commission of Gibraltar.. And when it goes into further details on p 59 of https://investors.watfordre.com/static-files/ac1b490a-16a2-423e-a395-d30d73b95260#tSF14, I’m still not seeing any French connection…so on my cursory look, as my parents would have said, this doesn’t seem to have anything to do with price of tea in China re the original merger agreement and/or any ultimate impact on WTREP.

                      And while we’re on this stuff, does anyone have any new info on the Landcadia/Hilman Holdco merger agreement and its impact on HLM-??? Is that still on schedule for a second quarter closing? If it is on schedule, then HLM- is trading too high with it trading more than 3 monthly payments above “par.”

                    2. 2WR, I did study it deeper a while back, but it did me no good as I remembered it backwards, so thanks for questioning me. Its working the opposite way I posted above and could possibily slow down the process as its another regulatory approval process now.
                      Since they got approval of the France company, the entire outfit of Watford becomes part of France’s jurisdiction, and now they also have to approve the regulatory approval process. So actually its a good thing as they could drag process out longer and possibly help inhibit the merger process.
                      Here is from Watford regulatory filing. Notice the French mention at the last sentence.
                      Consummation of the merger is subject to obtaining required regulatory approvals from the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, the European Commission, the Turkish Competition Authority, the Bermuda Monetary Authority, the New Jersey Department of Banking and Insurance, the California Department of Insurance and the Financial Services Commission of Gibraltar. In addition, in the event Watford completes its pending acquisition of Axeria IARD, a French société anonyme, prior to consummation of the merger, the approval of the French Prudential Supervision and Resolution Authority (Autorité de Contrôle Prudentiel et de Résolution) will also be required to consummate the merger.
                      (Page 7)

                    3. Grid – Ahah! An updated version! Well, you’re welcome, Grid…. Glad I could be of service by being wrong….. ha! Thanks for doing more diligently due diligencing.

                      Now about Hillman – you follow that one anymore? I sold out on that due to price, but can’t seem to find any updated info on where that stands….

                    4. Well, 2WR, between the two of us, we just proved….Two wrongs can make a right, ha!
                      I did the same thing with Hillman as you did on a quick flip. Havent looked back as I assumed it would have been redeemed at closing as stated…However, I just checked and apparently something was not factored in correctly and the redemption has now been put on hold for an unspecified amount of time. This was in a mid March filing..Maybe this is why the price has bled north some more.

                      On March 12, 2021, Landcadia, Merger Sub, Hillman Holdco and the Stockholder Representative entered into a First Amendment to the Merger Agreement (the “First Amendment”) in order to clarify the treatment of the Debentures Indenture (as defined in the Merger Agreement) and the Trust Preferred Securities (as defined in the Merger Agreement). In particular, due to contractual requirements and practical considerations, the Trust Preferred Securities cannot be redeemed and the Debenture Indenture cannot be satisfied and discharged on the Closing Date.
                      The First Amendment provides that:
                      (i)At the Closing, proceeds sufficient to effect the satisfaction and discharge of the Debentures Indenture (and upon receipt of such funds by Hillman Group Capital Trust (the “Hillman Trust”), as holder of the Debentures and issuer of the Trust Preferred Securities, to redeem the Trust Preferred Securities) will be deposited with the trustee under the Debentures Indenture, and the Debentures Indenture will be discharged thereby; and (ii)Hillman Trust and its subsidiaries will effect the redemption of the Trust Preferred Securities as promptly as practicable following the Closing Date.
                      The foregoing description of the First Amendment, and the transactions and documents contemplated thereby, are not complete and are subject to and qualified in their entirety by reference to the First Amendment, a copy of which is filed with this Current Report on Form 8-K as Exhibit 2.1 hereto, and the terms of which are incorporated by reference herein.

                    5. Thanks again, Grid on HIllman this time…. I had read that same release as well, but the way I read it was that the Amendment was resolving the screw-up and, therefore, all was copacetic once again subject to the Closing. So HLM- holders were right back in line wondering about the timing of a closing at which time an announcement of a call on HLM- could be issued immediately thereafter instead of a call actually being executed UPON closing date…. So anyone paying up now is still betting on timing of a closing to be beyond what remains estimated as being in the second quarter. All this Amendment does is gives HLM- life support for 30 days beyond the still anticipated closing date. Still, with the coupon being so high, an extra 30 days is worth $.24 but that’s not enough to justify the price without thinking they’ll not meet their time estimates.

              2. Kaptain Lou said: “buy up small illiquid issues, state they will “never sell”

                KL, broadly speaking I am in the camp that every financial asset I own in a brokerage account IS for sale at some price. Regardless of whether it is labeled as illiquid or not, it is clear that many III posters have a similar philosophy. Once again broadly speaking, the entire area of preferreds/babys IS illiquid. Many of them trade with wider bid/ask spreads than popular mass consumption common stocks. Mini flash crashes are relatively common also, due to the low liquidity of these issues. If a investor wants to take advantage of low liquidity, wide spreads and/or mini flash crashes, I don’t have a problem with it.

                For example today I sold a specific position in many accounts, when it had an irrational run-up in price IMO. My premise is that this issue will be called on its first call date and was priced with a negative yield to that date. While this issue is not labelled “illiquid” around here and has not been discussed in roughly the last year, I was willing to sell at a price. If you asked me pre-Covid, I would have probably called it a “sock drawer” holding with no intentions of selling in the next few years. But conditions changed where calls are a dime a dozen today, so it made sense to sell.

                BOTTOM LINE is that I think it is fine and acceptable to put a sale price on most of these holdings regardless of whether they are called illiquid and/or “sock drawer.” And for the record, I don’t think we currently hold any issue that has been labelled “sock drawer” in any account.

                BTW, I see MANY, MANY issues that we do NOT hold that I think are priced with negative yield to first calls. It is really up to each individual investor to stay on top of them and decide if they are for sale TODAY at a price. Last count was something like 80 issues in the next 12 months.

              3. kl, I don’t think anybody here has ever stated that they will “never sell” what’s in their sock drawer. For example, among many other things, I have a bunch of PPWLM in my so-called sock drawer that I don’t intend to sell. But you will also see some of them for sale on level 2. Meet my price and they are yours. Others in my sock drawer can also be bought. At the right price, of course. Do you recall AILNP selling for 140 not long before being called for 100? That wasn’t me, but there are countless similar examples and several of them are mine.

                It really can’t be any other way in the real world, so I don’t see why you repeat your “never sell” rant over and over. It is naive and, frankly, beneath anyone who considers himself even a minimally sophisticated investor.


                1. camroc – great post tonight and I needed a good laugh this evening after a tough day with tax preparation! You guys kill me with these posts. After dozens and dozens of posts on SA, III and Silicon Investors over the past few years that no one will sell AILLL, it has now been called. It’s a miracle!
                  Of course, the truth on the security is that it was trading at $26 and the comments on this message board moved the stock up to close to $29 – and you sold out to people that read message boards! It’s all documented from a great lady I know on SA. Team GridCamroc clearly sold out at the top, leaving capital losses of close to $4 per share from your friends. Well done!

                  1. Could you provide some of those dozens of posts? I read here regularly and have never gotten the impression that there was anything that someone wouldn’t sell if the price was high enough. People talk about adding to, and subtracting from their sock drawers all the time.

                    Oh, and what is the screen name of the lady savant on SA so I can see if she is worth following?

                    I made a bunch off of AILLL. It would trade in fairly predictable ranges over long periods of time so it was great for flipping. And there were multiple opportunities to sell out at the “top” because it would peak over and over again — as some preferreds are prone to do. I traded it over a period of years. I knew it could get called and got caught with some at the end, but it was a calculated risk and I came out way ahead when all was said and done.

                    And I sure wasn’t taking any cues from anyone other than maybe hearing about it the first time several years ago on this or another site.

                  2. I pointed out an opportunity, several people here liked the idea and bought some, then it went down 5 cents. Maybe your great lady can investigate and find out who stole my nickel.

                  3. kaptain–would like to see this ‘documented’ info from the lady on SA it would help clarify what this issue is all about.

                    1. Tim, what is a great risk/reward at 26-27 on a high quality becomes a poor one at 29. Things change since this isnt a growth stock. Search on your own site AILLL and you will see me telm Yuriy and Bob way back last year it wasnt a good risk at elevated prices. Wow someone the posts that pumped it up didnt deflate it. Or was it just over time the lower yield envrionment caused it?
                      One thing is sure I was wrong twice. I thought if it were ever to be redeemed they all would go down together. And I also thought a call announcement would come instead of a divi declaration then call later. Since declarations were all well before payment. I suspect I will be wrong many more times too…Oh well heading out today.

                    2. Grid-Honestly you folks are on the site more than I am these days, but I don’t understand the hubbub.

                    3. You will never see the documentation as this has been a continual process targeting specific people at this site with slander. You can see a pattern of behavior and you can see the hurt in their posts. Divorce, job stress, poor investment choices are extreme factors impacting the situation and unless they get help, this will spiral out of control. Blaming others for the path that you are taking is not healthy as that is redirection. Until you own who your are, who you want to become, solely own the path to where you are today, make each and every day a better day… this is not going to end well as the comments are increasingly getting more intense.

                    4. Mr. Conservative with a few clicks I can control this–Hopefully we won’t see more but my patience is being tested.

                    5. Tim, I am also irritated at all this, because I have not seen any instance of pumping on this site. In fact, quite the opposite – Grid has warned me time & again about buying past call illiquids as they could be called at the drop of a hat. Years of no call made me complacent, and I was one of those caught when AILLL was called.

                      Do I blame anyone? Of course not!

                      It was my own decision to hold, and I fully understood what the knowledgeable folks on this board were saying -and I deserve to suffer the consequences, not blame others.

                      It is annoying to see such rants here, when we are all trying to learn from each other. I hope it stops.

                    6. Insp
                      Second that, and well said.
                      I have been on this site about 15 months now. Perhaps I’m naive, but all the comments on particular issues that I can recall have been along the lines “here’s something to think about. Maybe it’s for you, and maybe it isn’t.” Never anything like – buy this, it’s 9% risk free.
                      If my experience here is that I’ve been victimized by pump and dumps, all I can say is keep victimizing me, please.

                    7. Now I hate to disagree, but it’s absolutely, positively 100% Grid’s fault. Over and over he and his comments have forced me to buy high quality liquids, illiquids and low volume issues that just pay and pay and pay. It’s just ridiculous. So many of them are still in the sock drawer. And some of them, here it is: “I’ll never sell.” It’s all his fault. And same for camroc with his raw common sense. Absolutely intolerable.

                    8. Re: Search on your own site AILLL and you will see me telm Yuriy and Bob way back last year it wasnt a good risk at elevated prices.
                      I sold them then )))
                      Honestly, it seems to me that it’s just a rude provocation, apparently the existence of this site and its permanent members obstruct someone from selling their snake oil.
                      Grid, you have ABSOLUTELY nothing to excuse or explain, just ignore such toxic commentators. It would be a shame if these intrigues will lead to a decrease in your activity on the site.

                    9. Grid et al., thanks for all your help and tips through the course of time. You have not forced anyone’s hand on buying. This site has continuously expressed the importance of doing one’s own due diligence. Some may be forgetting that about a year ago a bot drove AILLL’s share price way up. The bot incident lasted a few days (as I recall). Many of us here seized the opportunity to sell in the 30s and 40s. If my memory serves me, from then on, the AILLL share price never settled back to the levels prior to the bot incident.

                  4. Kaptain Lou,
                    First of all , I share your views in many ways.
                    I too prepare taxes and this season may be the worst one ever. What with the late changes, no face to face appointments and stimulus questions, it’s been a mess.
                    Banishing a few clients that were not polite were the only high points so far.
                    Stay calm, pace yourself and keep the coffee coming.

                  5. Gee, kl, are you trying to turn this fine site into just another conspiracy swamp? Because I believe your words may meet the standard definition of libel.

                    Fortunately for you, however, I am just an old retired recluse, with nothing at all going on that your words can possibly damage.

                    But you might want to be a bit more careful. Others might not take your libelous accusations with such equanimity.


                    1. All;

                      I have been on this site for a few years but don’t often comment. First, I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts. It’s up to each of us to conduct our own due diligence and accept responsibility and accountability for our own actions. (This is taught by my wife to her 5th grade students.)

                      This site through everyone’s ones contribution has assisted me in preparing for retirement this year. I appreciate Tim’s, Grids, 2WhiteRoses, Mr. Conservative, Bob-in-DE and all the many others who frequently share their thoughts on strategy, tactics and when new preferred issues are being released. As an example several months ago there was a discussion about AATRL. It was mentioned as a sock drawer holding. I researched it and waited for the proper entry point on price ( Grid emphasizes the importance of this quite frequently). I kept watch and after the price increased to the point the capital gain was the same as 13 quarters of dividends I sold it at $56.85. So even though some called it a sock drawer investment I made my own decision that for me it was time to sell. That’s a pretty good ring of the register for me. The point being that without this site I wouldn’t have been aware of this stock. It was my decision to purchase, choose the entry point and my decision to sell it. (I have others that I’m currently reviewing as well to harvest the gain but have the other thought where do I invest the proceeds. )

                      If others don’t find value at this site then go to somewhere you do. That’s statement is not intended to offend but to make others think. This is like going to the same restaurant several times a week and constantly complaining about the same things. Just go to a different restaurant that suits you. Others like the restaurant and don’t want to see it changed.
                      I enjoy the way most everyone “gets along” and teases each other all the while helping each other to earn income. This is a great community.

                      Thanks to Tim and everyone else that makes it a place I like to visit several times a day!

                      Mike Havel

                  6. Most ridiculous post I’ve seen in 3 years on this site KL. AILLL came to my attention through posters on this site 18 months ago & after researching I bought in at 27 and change KNOWING FULL WELL that it was way past call. It was a risk/reward proposition. I alone was responsible for when I bought, and when I sold or not. Considered selling when it crossed 29, but didn’t pull trigger. Again, my own decision. As it turned out, the wrong one.
                    But heres the point..my ratio of right decisions to wrong decisions aided by this site is hugely in the plus column. I have no doubt that it will continue to be, and I am hugely grateful to all who contribute

                    1. IIRC the OP announced his departure from this site. Nice of him to drop by. /s

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