When you are holding ‘live’ (issues that are currently in the floating period) floating rate, fixed to floating rate and fixed rate reset securities you need to know the date that is used to determine the next dividend since the coupon is determined by either 3 month Libor or in the case of newer issues 3 month SOFR.
For instance the Customers Bancorp 6.00% fixed to floating rate perpetual preferred (CUBI-F) is now in the floating rate period. The issue has a ‘spread’ (the fixed portion of the coupon) of 4.762%, which is added to 3 month Libor. So today (if today was the dividend determination date) the coupon for next quarter (payment on 12/15/2022) would be 7.992% (3 month Libor is 3.23% added to the fixed spread of 4.762%).
From the prospectus–
We will pay dividends on the Series F Preferred Stock only when, as, and if declared by our board of directors or a duly authorized committee of our board and to the extent that we have lawfully available funds to pay dividends. Dividends on the Series F Preferred Stock will accrue and be payable quarterly in arrears, on the 15th day of March, June, September, and December of each year, commencing on December 15, 2016, at a fixed rate per annum equal to 6.00% from the original issue date to, but excluding, December 15, 2021, and thereafter at a floating rate per annum equal to three-month LIBOR (as defined in this prospectus supplement) on the related dividend determination date (as defined herein) plus a spread of 4.762% per annum.
Note that they refer to the dividend determination date–but for some damned reason can’t simply lay out when that is – they make us dig deeper into the prospectus.
From the prospectus–
For any dividend period during the floating rate period, three-month LIBOR (the London interbank offered rate) shall be determined by the calculation agent on the second London business day immediately preceding the first day of such dividend period (which we refer to as the “dividend determination date”) in the following manner. A dividend period is from payment date to payment date.
So this means that 2 days prior to a dividend payment date the 3 month Libor rate is locked in for the next payment. So CUBI-F will pay a dividend on 9/15/2022 (next week). On 9/13/2022 the 3 month Libor rate will be locked in for the next payment on 12/15/2022.
Now Libor is going away on 6/30/2023 so that will no longer be used. At this time the Federal Reserve is determining the replacement–it will likely be 3 month SOFR plus an adjustment, but this is not yet determined.
The bottom line is that for all floating rate issues there is a dividend determination date. I reviewed 5 issues anad all had dates 1-2 days prior to a dividend payment date, but some may be different and investors need to dig into their prospectus if you want to know for sure.
NOTE–I know that many seasoned folks know the above info, but because we have many newer investors reading these pages I need to cover items like this.
Tim,
Thanks much for this.
9/13 is also a determination date for CUBI-E and RZA. With the CUBI issues, that will determine the dividend for the quarter ending 12/15. If 3ML on Tuesday is the same as now, 3.2454% (I get the number in the morning on the Bloomberg News channel), then the CUBI-E dividend should be ~$0.52, and the CUBI-F dividend should be ~$0.50.
RZA is different, because, unlike the CUBI issues, it is callable anytime on 30 days’ notice, not just on a dividend payment date. Based on present 3ML, the quarterly RZA dividend should be ~$0.48. If, hypothetically, a call were to be noticed on Monday, you about break even based on the closing price of $25.14. As long as it lives, you are getting a return of ~7.6%. I take the fact that it wasn’t called immediately in mid-August as a possible indication they’re willing to let it live at least a while longer, but you never know.
As to PNC-P, I agree that there is a good probability that it will be called for 11/1. What I like though is that if it is, you still get a YTC of ~4.8% based on the closing price of $25.26. Not great, but OK for about 7 weeks, and certainly better than any money market fund these days. If it isn’t called, so much the better. We will know if it lives on 10/2, which should also be when the 11/1 dividend of ~$0.44 is formally declared. LI notes that the new PNC preferred is trading below par, which might mean that the likelihood of the PNC-P being called is somewhat less than you might otherwise think.
Thanks Tim – very helpful.
Picked up a couple hundred PNC-P at $25.27 today, where (if I’m understanding this correctly; est 3-mo Libor 3.23%) if today were the div determination date, would be a 7.22% coupon at my purchase price.
The Nov 1st dividend, following the Sept 50-75bp Fed hike, could potentially push this higher – an excellent rate for this top-tier financial company (https://thepncfinancialservicesgroupinc.gcs-web.com/credit-ratings).
Keep in mind, though, that PNC has already raised the necessary funds on August 16th to possibly call PNC-P on Nov 1…. They do not say outright that they expect to call, but they do mention redeeming preferreds as one option in Use of Proceeds… see https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/713676/000119312522223038/d268756d424b2.htm#supptoc268756_6..
PNC’s new par $1000 preferred is a good deal and available below par.
Hello L.I.
Is there a stock symbol for that product ?
It does not show on Q.O. or on TDA
Thanks
No symbol. As a 1k issue, you’ll probably go thru your broker’s bond desk and use Cusip # 693475BF18
I entered the CUSIP on the TDA bond page and got nothing.
nhcoast (17 miles right?),
omit 8 at end. That is, CUSIP is Cusip # 693475BF1 (in gratitude to 2WR)
Info at Fido:
Moody BAA2, SP BBB-
Issued on 16 Aug 2022;
6.2 coupon; pays quarterly, starting on Dec 15 2022
next reset date: 15 Sep 2027; maturity: 31 Dec 2049
Its a Note so not QDI
Best regards, Green-n-Gold
They tell us 18 miles.
I entered the CUSIP without the 8 at end. Not getting any trading info. I have the other info.
According to the prospectus, it is a preferred stock and QDI.
BTW, there was a #12 in these parts who also did OK.
Thanks nhcoast, Landlord et al. !
A good reminder not to trust brokerage info but to rely on prospectus.
nhcoast, that #12 did beyond OK – aka GOAT.
Best regards, Green-n-Gold
I knew that CUSIP # looked too long, but oddly enough entered it into Active Trader Pro and it did come up….. thanks for figuring it out… BTW, for future reference to those doing DD, the ID info came from the FWP filed on EDGAR on August 16 – https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/713676/000119312522222391/d352857dfwp.htm Could the 8 on the end identify it as a preferred on some systems?
8 is the check digit in the ISIN. so the CUSIP of 693475BF1 would have an ISIN of US693475BF18 since it is a US issue. (some Canadian issues have an ISIN that starts with CA)
https://www.isindb.com/convert-cusip-to-isin/
It’s QDI and a preferred, not a note. Also doesn’t have a maturity date. The reset is 5 yr UST + 3.238%.
IBKR has it in inventory and you can use limit orders. I think you have to call it in for everyone else and buy at the Ask.
Nh, Two general issues. 1) Many bond cusips wont even appear until bond market is open in various brokerages. I figured that out on my own throuh personal experience. 2) I suspect a few may, but many retail brokerages dont appear to show any $1000 preferred issues via their bond inventory. My experience taught me on these you actually have to call the bond desk at your brokerage to get a bid/ask quote and to put an order in that way.
Good post Tim. Let me just add that for anyone using Fidelity as your broker, they will automatically update the floating security description in your holdings with the current rate whenever it changes. Takes all the thinking out of it
Thanks Maverick–I didn’t know that about Fido–but I don’t have anything floating in that account now.
Tim, lets set the bar higher than 3.08%. I seen at as 3.19% as of Wednesday. We have a for more days for one last upward push before Libor is set next payment!
What site do you depend on for 3 mo LIBOR rate and 5 yr Treas rate? I’ve been using https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/interestrate/liborusd3m?countryCode=MR
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/bond/tmubmusd05y?countrycode=bx
Good point 2wr–I thought I had a good rate, but it appears it is a few days old and has moved higher–will change the article.
https://www.global-rates.com/en/interest-rates/libor/american-dollar/usd-libor-interest-rate-3-months.aspx
Grid – A quick look at your site seems to be showing a rate from the 7th where even first thing this morning, marketwatch https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/interestrate/liborusd3m/download-data?countrycode=mr&mod=mw_quote_tab had yesterday’s rate a/o noon posted as 3.23571%, right? Compare and see if marketwatch is not always more up to date….
Yes, that is why I said Wednesday. Its usually up to date off today for some reason. I dont book mark. I just type “3” in and the site pops up so I use it.
I’ll have to check out the sites you have been using…
I’ve been using
https://www.wsj.com/market-data/bonds
and
https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/cme-group-benchmark-administration/term-sofr.html
Hi Grid–I updated it–I thought ‘bankrate’ had good numbers–obviously NOT.