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Sandbox Page

I will be adding a new link titled “Sandbox” in the right hand menu.

That link will get you to this page.

I had originally set up the “Reader Initiated Alert” page for ‘alerts’. I was thinking this, for instance, might be when a preferred stock is undergoing a temporary selloff and someone wants to let the population know about it quickly. Of course we all (including me) use the ‘alert’ page for general messaging.

I am requesting that we start using the Sandbox page for all general talk, and try to preserve the ‘alerts’ page for ‘alerts’.

I have had a screen up on one of my monitors all week where I see all comments – no matter where they are posted–it is a great page and I wish everyone had a page like that–believe me we all benefit from all the knowledge being shared. I don’t want to stifle any of the exchange of knowledge, but hope to get things a bit better organized by adding the Sandbox page.

1,966 thoughts on “Sandbox Page”

  1. KTN – I reviewed a lot of discussion threads on this but wanted to confirm that it reports on a 1099? I had some concern given that it is a Trust. TIA

  2. This time it will be different……
    .
    I retired early in April, 1998, supported by an investment portfolio wherein SPY had grown steadily from 46 (yes, 46) in July, 1994 to 109 on my retirement date.
    I assured my wife that our planned withdrawal rate of 5% would be easily supported by SPY growth.

    Didn’t happen.

    The 2001 dot.com collapse of the techs brought SPY back four years later to 90 in Oct, 92.
    A steady rise over the next five years and SPY reached a peak of 155 in Nov, 2007.
    Followed by a drop down to 80 in April, 2009.

    On the 11th year anniversary of my retirement, SPY was 30% lower than when I began.

    Volatility and black swans are a way of life in the stock market.

    But this time it will be different.
    Sure.

    1. Very nice synopsis, it made me pull up the chart ! I hope you hung on ! My best to you ! Also, the knowledge on this site is unbelievable, you must all be CFA’s. Two of my favorite sayings are preserve and protect, and your health is you wealth !!

    2. I got you beat by a coupla years, Westie having retired in 1995. I was fortunate enough to have been able to invest at the venture capital level in a couple of homeruns like Gilead, Sandisk and a hardware company called Viking something or other, but by the time the dot com bubble burst I pretty much had sold the tech and venture stuff, not because of my brilliance but to fund the buy of a house when we left the States…. I did have one real high flyer tech stock that I did decide was ridiculously priced and pretty much hit the high but again that was pure luck… The downside of this is that after going thru that frightening time as a retiree, I never really got back in, so for the most part I’ve probably missed the lion’s share of the greatest bull run in my lifetime…. Still, like you, we figured we could safely work down our nestegg over our retirement years if we had to and still be OK if we could just make a minimum positive return above the rate of inflation…. I guess we’ve done that as we’re still here. and we’ve far exceeded our conservative gameplan for retirement these past 28 years, but without much of the wealth building portfolio growth that Grid’s much touted dart throwing monkey could have had over the years had I just continued to trust the investing instincts that gave me the opportunity to retire at a young age..

      1. Just a little bit of advice 2WR. If you are ever forced to decide between dart throwing monkeys and HDO to invest your money, go with the monkeys. And further, trust the monkeys with your credit card to find Walmart on their own to buy the darts so they can make the investments for you.

          1. I think you have heard every song created and played at least once since the Elvis era and beyond! You all that retire off your wealth certainly have my respect. Both in acquiring and trusting the process to live off it. That is a 2 step boogie, not a one step. As even if you are successful at acquiring it, you still have to Shepard it until then end. And that includes being able to make yourself spend it. I know some first step people, but they arent second steppers. If they got one penny of interest annually they are going to live off that penny. Just cant let go of a life times work of accumulating and flipping the switch to spending. I can relate, though. I will never be in running for richest man in the graveyard, but I have never spent a penny of my growing investment accounts, but I have a cola pension that I cant spend it all monthly anyways. But, its a lot easier spending money magically dumped into your account monthly than what it would be to spend from ones accounts they spent a lifetime accumulating. Or at least it would be from my observational point.

            1. Hey Gridbird…… I will share a couple of wisdoms from my 105 year old Dad riding him around in his truck in some of the more rural areas you have ever seen. When we go by a graveyard I know he will look over at me and say “Drive faster son! We’ve got no business here today!” shortly followed by “He’s never seen a Wells Fargo armoured truck following the hearse to the graveyard.” According to him we all go into the clay the same no matter how rich we were in life! A pine box is just as comfortable as one of these expensive caskets. The gospel according to Dad………

              1. Dj, lol, that is why my Dad was cremated. He didnt want to waste money on a casket. He would say, we are not wasting money on casket, I wont need this body when Im in heaven anyways. Now my grandmother (his mother) wanted to be buried, but dad wasnt having any part of getting ripped off at a funeral home. Somehow he knew you could buy caskets from Walmart so he saved a bundle buying there. Frugal until the end….I didnt even know Walmart sold caskets!

                1. Grid, My two favorite (and only retail stocks) Walmart and Costco both offer and compete on caskets. Costco sends me emails with their special offerings and at times it includes caskets. I guess folks buy on sale and then store.
                  The good ol boys in TN a few years back got concerned about profits with folks using cremation. The ethical state legislature then passed a law that all bodies must be embalmed and cremated in caskets! Just another night of booze in Nashville with our esteemed elected representatives. (After an uproar the law was rescinded but it took a few years.) Thereafter, my (current) congressman (former state representative) worked to get a bill passed to legalize eating road kill. That genius is now in Congress forming committees to search for UFOs.

    3. I can see people wondering how we survived in retirement given the drops in portfolio value.
      In addition to the investment portfolio (my 401k pension option, deferred bonuses, accumulated savings), we had:
      – Wife municipal pension auto-increasing 3%/yr
      – Social Security; hers and mine.
      – Mostly for something to do (I was 57, she 49), we both took part-time jobs. She, a CPA, handled the books for some firms. I consulted with a local biotech firm, and have been their CFO now for the past 19 years. Not the pay a full-time job would have earned, but enough to fill the gap.
      Last, we spent 4-5% of what the portfolio balance WAS. If it rose, we could spend more. Fell, we cut back.

  3. I bought US T Bill zeros at Fidelity today. The quote was:

    98.305 Ask Price
    5.349 Ask Yield
    98.295 Third Party Price

    When I set up the order, it read:

    98.307 Ask Price with $0.00 mark-up and $0.00 accrued interest

    1) It’s pocket change but 98.307 is a higher price so there’s a mark-up?

    2) What is the Third Party Price and is that something available to me?

    1. It looks like “Third Party Price” is just the output of a model to be used for estimating prices, not an actual price that someone else is selling for. I’m guessing it’s just that the market was moving as you were submitting your order, rather than an added fee. Here’s what Fidelity says on one of their help pages:

      “Third Party Price: depicts a security’s price formulated from a 3rd party vendor’s proprietary pricing methodology. To establish this modeled price, a host of factors such as recent trade activity, size, timing, and yields of comparable bonds are used. In the case of a comparable bond comparison, the vendor assigns a “fair market” yield to the security, then extrapolates a representative price based on the fair market yield assigned. In many cases, this modeled price provides price discovery and transparency for bonds that may not have traded for days, months or even years. Understandably, in scenarios where a security hasn’t traded recently, attempting to accurately predict the “market price” can be a challenging endeavor. Nevertheless, the vendor prices bonds on a daily basis. Please Note: Given the nature of the modeled pricing provided, it is not accurate to characterize such pricing as a “closing price” or to suggest that the price was based on specific recent (prior day’s end of day) trading activity.”

      https://www.fidelity.com/webcontent/ap002390-mlo-content/19.09/help/help_definition_t.shtml

    2. No mark-up. Your order will be matched up with the best bid that meets the minimum number of bonds requirement. Check “depth of book” to see bids and minimums.

      No idea about “third party pricing”.

  4. FNB-E called.
    Will payout $0.45325 divi (plus $25) on Feb. 15. Ex-date was yesterday.

    I could have sworn I saw someone post that this was coming a couple of weeks ago, but I can’t find it.

  5. SITC-A any interest, yielding over 7% now, past call, doing a spinoff of specialty strip malls w SBUX etc in them and keeping SITE w the grocery anchored names. https://innovativeincomeinvestor.com/security/ddr-corp-6-375-class-a-cumulative-redeemable-preferred-stock/

    the old DDR a Rubicon/ Mike Miller (Dalio before) name from old days on SA. Considering it, not sure for a small buy to put cash to work, possible stink bid. The Spin might make the div covg on the pfd less..or they might redeem although the 6.375% is quite similar to their ‘cap’ rate analysis on the presentation.
    Had it on my watch list which really has a dearth of interesting buy prices when I look at the yields. Bea

    1. Bea, the sniper! it was a better buy in the last down draft of the market. Lets see what happens tomorrow after the Fed’s meeting. Speaking of sniper’s, my play on GRBK A got mentioned here the other day and it ran away from my bids like a scared puppy dog. I had been slowly accumulating.

  6. Put some cash to work by buying MFAN (2029) at $25.15 and CGBDL (2028) at $25.61. Most of my other bonds and baby bonds mature in 2025 and 2026 so wanted to extend the duration out a bit.

    1. CGBDL is not as over par as it appears. They pay out for interest payment March 1. Plus being there should be about a ~10 day additional stub, so it should pay out over 60 cents first interest cycle.

  7. Things that make you go “hmmm…”

    Current Yield
    KIM-L: 5.5%
    KIM-M: 5.6%
    KIN-N: 6.3%

    So much for EMH. Silly prefs!

    1. Yes, as I’ve mentioned before I was expecting these to converge after the merger closed. Is it possible there is some investor uncertainty over the conversion price?

      1. Is $21.77 the KIM common stock share price that would be used for the 130% mandatory conversion provisions?

        1. Dick. Yes, IR has confirmed that figure with me.

          The new mandatory figure is $28.3.
          21.77 * 1.3 = 28.3

      2. Nope.

        100% due to market silliness.

        Place your chips where you desire.

        The folks at PFFA ain’t no dummies. KIM-N is their 17th largest position, kinda high for an illquid.

        1. I’m not sure there is big mispricing here. I also don’t know that I would expect the gap to fill. For example, look at the spread between WFC-L (6.3% current yield) and WFC-A (5.7% current yield). Also, BAC-L at 6.1% and BAC-N at 5.6%.

          These issues with mandatory redemption provisions based on the price of the common generally trade with higher current yields than plan vanilla fixed rate preferred issues.

    1. Hi Bur, I’ve been writing covered calls against many of my equity positions for decades. Covered calls are level 1 options (these are the least risky of all options), have an underlying asset that I already own, are time sensitive in the sellers favor, are written (usually) above the current price of the equity I am long, the strategy is super popular for income investors, it can be used to target double-digit returns in the stock market whether the market is up, down, or going sideways. BTW, option buys and sells are NOT reported to the IRS. There is a good explanation on Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/08/covered-call.asp
      I’d be glad to answer any specific questions you have, A

      1. Azure ; I see risk in what you are doing ; you are buying Index ETFs like VOO;
        lets say you sell the feb 460 call and get $2.00 plus whatever small dividend yield ; you are good as long as VOO trades flat or rises ; the problem ; in a market correction you are stuck with your position and a capital loss ; so what do you do then? sell a call option that bakes in a loss ?
        on IRS reporting ; i am getting reported on Schwab 1099B for all the amounts of expired put and call premiums; they are entered as short term gains or losses on Turbotax; please explain ; thanks

        1. Azure ; I came back to this thread today ( jan 29; 2;36pm) expecting a defense of your thesis; but I find no response ;i had “specific questions” and we are kind of expecting you to respond ; thanks

          1. Ted, at this moment it is certainly best to let you decide your own portfolios fate. I am traveling in the pulchritudinous countryside of Russia and just do not want to spend the time or effort when the world’s knowledge is at your finger tips. YOU and YOU alone decide what your best course of action and the risk level of each asset in your portfolio. I am reminded of 2 Russian proverbs:
            Бедность вдохновляет на изобретения
            Тот, кто не рискует, не пьет шампанское
            I am Comrade Azure

              1. poverty is the necessity of invention?
                He who doesn’t take risks does not drink champagne
                Even Google has trouble with Russian
                Multiple suggestions, but it comes down to general meaning, Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

            1. Sorry if OT, but a lot of musical comments here lately. I learned of the term “pulchritude” from Michael Franks’ “Popsicle Toes” from his ’76 album “The Art of Tea.” Still worth a listen.

    2. Yeah, that didn’t make sense to me either. He must be defining risk in a different way than the rest of us.

      (If they were truly risk free, we would all put 100% of our money into a covered call fund like ETV, right?)
      (And of course options transactions are reported on your 1099-B.)

      1. One could claim that a covered call has less risk than owning the stock because of the premium received but that ignores opportunity risk.

        The short answer is that a covered call is synthetically equivalent to a naked put. Writing naked puts is not risk free.

        1. I may be mistaken, but I think AB is talking about selling covered calls on shares he already owns (definition of a “covered” call. IIRC). It is not less risk than owning the stock because (I believe) he OWNS the stock.

          I think he is saying that it is low risk because he is collecting an option premium against shares he already owns. Worst thing that happens is that his shares get called away at the option price.

          1. It doesn’t matter if you already own the stock or you buy it when you short the call. In order to be a “covered call” one must own the stock.

            Yes, selling a covered call lowers the risk of owning stock (by the amount of the premium received) but that doesn’t make the position low risk. It’s also a misstatement to say that a covered call is the least risky of all options. It’s a high long delta position and that is not low risk. It’s low risk to the broker, not the investor.

            And no, the worst thing that happens is NOT that shares get called away at the strike price. The worst thing is that it’s 2000, 2008, or 2020 and you lose 30-50% of your position’s value or more.

            1. I agree NOT risk free. If Iran bombs today, I guarantee the market will react. If one has covered calls, one better be agile and buy back the options. I don’t mind doing this when I know I can react quickly. However, living my life doesn’t mean tied to phone/computer 24/7 so I am cautious on this and hope others realize the risk.
              I am confused about not being reported to the IRS.

              1. TNT, theo – I don’t see how your scenario would be a problem.

                Help me understand:
                I own a stock that is trading at $40
                I sell a covered call at $50 (and pocket the premium)

                Now, assume the market crashes ala 2008, or 2020, and the value of the shares drops by half:

                -If I kept the shares, I would own a stock trading at $20 and the $50 call is further out of the money. No harm to me from the call whatsoever. You have to separate the risk from the call from the general risk of owning the shares. The risk to me of owning the shares is exactly the same whether I sell the call or not.

                -If I chose to sell during the fall, I would then own a naked call – or I could buy the call back *presumably at next to nothing).

                Only real “risk” scenario I can see is if (a) I sold the shares on the drop, and (b) didn’t buy back the calls, and (c)and the stock bounced way back up . Possible, but improbable.

                Am I missing something?

                1. Hi Private,

                  “The risk to me of owning the shares is exactly the same whether I sell the call or not.”

                  That interpretation is correct.

                  However, the statement that the covered call strategy is low risk is incorrect because you cannot negate the stock’s risk by saying that you accept its inherent risk.

                  When your stocks all drop by 50%, your account value drops 50% (ignoring interest, dividends, option credits, etc.). Your buying power also drops, even if not on margin. That is not the definition of safety, aka low risk, nor is it the definition of not losing money.

                  In this scenario, some people even go as far as to say, I didn’t lose money after a 50% drop because I didn’t sell. Not true. Money has been lost but if no sale, the loss hasn’t been realized and is therefore potentially recoverable.

            2. theo
              I’m the last guy to enter into this fray, because I don’t trade (nor ever have) traded options.
              But, at an elementary school level, I think I understand where Azure is coming from.
              The key is: are you writing options as an investment strategy or are you writing covered calls to improve the income from a portfolio you already believe in?
              Using your example, lets say you believe in VOO and plan to keep it for the foreseeable future. It’s priced at 460 and you sell a covered call, strike 470, for $2. (I’m ignorant of market pricing, so just bear with me.)
              As you said, price anywhere between 460 and 472 during the option period is a win.
              But, you say, what if there is a significant drop in VOO, say to 440?
              My response is: what would you have done if you had not sold the option? Hold and wait for the recovery? Sell?
              Seems to me you would only sell if you thought there had been a material adverse change in your previously favored fund. If you believed that was the case, why would you fear the stock would suddenly zoom back over 470? Sure, going naked at that point would have some risk, but, if you really had concern it might pop back up, don’t sell.

              In any event, even if your favored stock drops dramatically, you at least have the $2.

              Again, I know nothing about options but my gut says most of what Az says feels right.
              (Except the 1099 part – think he’s off there.)

              1. Westie,

                I understand where Azure is coming from but his interpretation of the risk of selling calls is not how the industry defines such risk (Fidelity, Vanguard, Investopedia, etc.). The blanket statement that covered calls is a low risk strategy is incorrect.

                A covered call is synthetical equivalent to a NAKED PUT of the same series (same strike price and same expiration). That means that their risk and reward are the same. Does anyone believe that naked puts are risk free?

                As for options not being reported to the IRS, I don’t agree with that either. Once upon a time that was true. The IRS requirement for reporting equities began in 2010 (or 2011?) and 2013 for options.

    3. Only risk in a covered call scenario. You are missing out on the unlimited upside as the CALL Strike price is the maximum amount of money you will receive at the future date.

      If you sell a Covered Call Option 10% out of the money at the 52 week high. You will be able to mitigate this downside.

      1. True, micahc. The option caps your potential upside. I believe that is really the only real risk.

      2. micah ; say VOO trades at 450 and you want to sell a call 10% above that ; you can get a measly 70 cents if you go out to the April 490 calls; feb and mar NO bids ;

      3. micahc –

        Opportunity risk is not the only risk in a covered call.

        From the Investopedia link that Azure provided:

        > What Are the Main Drawbacks of a Covered Call?
        > The main drawbacks of a covered call strategy are the risk of losing money if the stock plummets (in which case the investor would have been better off selling the stock outright rather than using a covered call strategy) and the opportunity cost of having the stock “called” away and forgoing any significant future gains in it.

  8. OT – but for your week-end amusement and possible “beat the algo” late night trading – as of 10.41 PM , Saturday, Market Watch is showing the 10 Year US Treasury at 4.841% with a day range of 4.143 – 4.841. That seems a tad high to me.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/bond/tmubmusd10y?countrycode=bx&mod=home-page

    I’m guessing MW uses the same data feed as its affiliate Barrons, which also is showing the 10 yr at 4.841%. The 30 year Treasury shown as north of 5%.

    Jan 26, 2024 5:00 p.m. EST
    Real Time Quote
    https://www.barrons.com/market-data/bonds/tmubmusd10y?countrycode=bx

    And the Wall Street Journal
    https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/bond/BX/TMUBMUSD10Y

    Most interesting glitch since the early bitcoin ETF approval. Disclosure – Yeah. I am looking around to see if I can find anything mispriced. JMO. DYODD

  9. Long list on the other site of all the companies coming out of the woodwork with filings to sell new offerings of shares. Along with all the ETD offered lately seems like everyone is climbing on the bandwagon of getting new capitol while the market is surging.
    In general, my impression has been the end of year and quarterly financial reporting of companies for 2023 wasn’t as good as 2022 and estimates for 2024 are lowered. The market is forward looking they say and partying like it’s 1999 I’m going to sit this dance out. I have a saying, when the music stops there are never enough chairs for everyone to sit down.

  10. Comments on why KTN, structured deal, 7.8% yield, maturing 1/2027, backed by AON 8.25%sub debt, continues to fall in value?
    I can’t see the weakness.

    1. Its just a normal falling off process from going exD a couple weeks where it got over bid from people chasing the 6 month interest disbursement which I gladly gave them my 1000 shares. Its YTM isnt anything outstanding around 6.5% but nothing wrong with that if one wants a ~3 year maturity. Its actually same price as it was 3 months ago.

      1. Gridbird you may know the answer to this. The terms said that if the rating fell below A- there is a one-time payment of 50 cents. Is this payment due on maturity or has it already been made? Or am I reading something wrong?

        1. I think that rating fall had to happen prior to 12/31/01 for the payment to happen…… And then it had to be on the underlying security, not necessarily KTN itself…. I would think the language is saying all bets are off after 12/31/01

          an additional one-time payment of $0.50 per Certificate
          in the event the rating of the Underlying Capital
          Securities is downgraded below “A-” by Standard &
          Poor’s Ratings Services or below “a3” (if the
          Underlying Capital Securities continue to be rated on
          Moody’s “preferred” ratings scale) or below “Baa1” (if
          the Underlying Capital Securities are then rated on
          Moody’s “debt” ratings scale) by Moody’s Investors
          Service, Inc., in each case on or prior to December 31,
          2001.

        2. Jay, I am with the “White Rose from Tennessee” here. Also FWIW, the actual 1/27 debt held inside the KTN trust wrapper is available right now on bond market. 100 share minimum order at 107.9 on TD. So that is over a 100k purchase for a 5.25% YTM. So there is certainly nothing stressed about the actual underlying debt held in KTN trust.

  11. JXN-A is up sharply today, about .70 a share. The parent stock hasn’t moved much and I don’t see any news, so ? Getting a bit of an itchy trigger finger as I have about 1 year’s worth of dividends in cap gains on my shares, which is usually where I sell, but with an 8% dividend I don’t have anything better to replace it with.

    1. Bill ; i agree with you ; with a current yield of 7.5% and a big capital gain ;
      I’m in at 23.70 back in October; I can’t see this any higher; you can watch it for a day or so; see if the price tops out; its being run up on the next 50 cent dividend . so i plan on selling this week and putting the proceeds on CCIA ;

      1. Up again today. I sold out at 27.30. I live 3 miles from JXN hq. Have many friends, family, and neighbors that work there. Had never looked into their stock until I read about the preferred issuance here last year. Took an outsized position (for me) starting in the high 24’s and all the way down to the 21’s. Figured this was a “sock drawer” issue for me, but also glad to take the gain and run!

      2. Ted;
        I pulled the trigger and sold all my JXN-A today at $27.31. I bought in last October at $24.25. Not sure what I will buy yet. I do hold 300 of CCIA, might round that off to 500 and throw the rest into the Schwab MM while I decide what the next move will be. I do like JXN-A , might buy it in a market slide if I could get back in under $24.

    1. AB, funny you should post this. Several things. I have moved up a few of my GTC bids because the price is walking away from me, not a lot just a few. Then I do have funds in a Treasury ultra short term MM fund. I have all my money in one account backing GTC orders.
      I was just looking at All J last night thinking over $27.00 is Ridiculous. I wouldn’t pay that. I’m tempted to sell but I want the income so the buyer is going to have to pry it out of my hands.
      Here is the point, I already know I am going to take a hit on all the run up my holdings have increased, hopefully they don’t decline past what I paid for them. The good news is if the market gets a reality check some of my bids hit.
      Guess I am one of the Individual investors the article mentions. Just remember the book, Hitchhikers guide DON’T PANIC!

    2. great reflection on sideline cash, AB and I concur. Trapping Value wrote on this ‘myth’ on the ‘free’ side on SA a few years ago. And individual investor/saver sideline cash is sticky and slow to move once it parks over 5%; a lot is in CDs w penalties too. Of course folks here are more savvy in moving our cash to grab pennies for all the work we do and help we give one another. That large cash balance I moved from Discover Bank ‘h/y’ savings last year isn’t going back there anytime soon that’s for sure. We have relatively safe options and a lot of them are sticky!!

      1. Bea, thank you for your reply. I am always truly amazing at how many of my friends and business colleagues will ask me where my cash savings are (I’m at Vanguard); then tell me they still have incredibly large amounts in the bank earning virtually zero. I recall many here posted that if they could “just get 5% on anything safe”, they would put ALL their money in these safe investments and never look back 👀.
        They deem me mad because I will not sell my days for gold; and I deem them mad because they think my days have a price, A

  12. EBGEF – Enbridge Inc. Cumulative Redeemable Reset Rate Preference Shares, Series 5 Resets based on 5 yr UST +2.82 [Canadian issuer]

    As a reminder. based on reporting date 5 years ago, Enbridge will announce on Jan 30 whether or not they intend to call EBGEF. Odds are probably slim to none that they will call, but the announcement therefore says that EBGEF will be outstanding for at least another 5 years. Based on today’s 5 yr UST @ 4.04%, EBGEF would reset at 6.86% and at today’s last price on tsx.com of $22 its current yield would be 7.79%. I think actual reset will also occur on or about Jan 30.

    1. The quote for this issue on the toronto stock exchange is $22 canadian so ir should be about $16.25 US. I’m wondering why it’s selling for $22 USD. I used to own it a couple of years ago and remember paying the correct exchange rate.

      1. Not 100% certain, but I remember hearing that EBGEF is quoted in USD, even on the canadian exchanges.

      2. AJ – Even in Canada, this one trades in USD.. that’s why it’s always close to the same price whether you look for ENB.PF.V on tsx or EBGEF here.

    2. 2wr-
      Great update! I looked at the eight Enbridge outstanding preferreds listed on QOL. Five have non-existent OTC trading volume, including furcal’s series N. The other three (next 5y reset date, reset base, current coupon, last price, current yield):
      EBBGF 6/1/28 3.14% 6.7037% $21.5 7.80%
      EBBNF 9/1/27 3.15% 5.8579% $19.7 7.43% (on the III list)
      EBGEF 3/1/24 2.82% est. 6.86% $22 est. 7.79% (2wr est. post reset)

    3. UPDATE – I see no announcement yet today from ENB on EBGEF… I suspect that’s because of this being a LEAP YEAR… So what happened 5 years ago when reset announcement was on Jan 30 will most likely happen tomorrow instead of Jan 30. Originally I had not taken the Leap Year aspect into account when expecting an announcement today.

    1. Thanks Z, That is going to kick the NMFCZ higher but with a option to first call
      11/15/25 I would be watching the NMFCZ to see where rates are a yr from now and think about cashing in ahead of time.

  13. Does anyone know why SJIJ (CUSIP: 838518207) is no longer showing up on the FINRA bond page?

    I had it on my FINRA “watch list” and it appears to be gone now.

    1. That’s odd, FINRA previously showed data for that CUSIP.

      FINRA also isn’t showing any data either for the two new entrants to the symbol-less delisted baby bond club – AIC (041356502) and AAIN (041356809)

      The old delisted veterans still show up on FINRA though – PFX (71902E208) and IEH (45822P204)

      All of these delisted baby bonds should have retained their ticker symbols (same as the AmTrust bonds, LTS bonds, and CHRB all did). Then they could’ve kept trading on the OTC pink sheets (followed by the OTC expert market in ’21, tradeable via Fidelity). Their price & chart data would still be supported on all of the major market/charting sites as well (rather than having to rely solely on FINRA’s site).

      The fact that these symbol-less baby bonds instead are all stuck in this phone-only-trading no man’s land (unsupported by e-bond platforms Tradeweb, MarketAxess, IBKR, etc) has always been a pet peeve of mine.

      I’m also curious why ticker symbols were retained for some delisted baby bonds and not for others.. For the latter group, I suspect it might be as simple as their issuers simply not knowing that all they had to do was ask FINRA for the ticker symbol to be retained (which FINRA will do for free).

      DW – if you can reach any of the higher ups at South Jersey, send them this link – https://www.finra.org/sites/default/files/OTC%20Equity%20Symbol%20Request%20Form.pdf

      It’s a simple form for them (or perhaps their broker) to fill out and email to FINRA, upon which FINRA should hopefully re-issue a ticker symbol for it.

      Otherwise, the next 55 years (2079 maturity) is a long time for this bond to be stuck in its current state..

      1. True, but for me its just an is what is thing. I bought delisted SJIJ at a great ~$12 price treating the purchase as an annuity with an unknown residual value. Since I am not buying more or selling more its a non issue for me. The price value in my account has been unchanged since I bought it so this doesn’t affect it anyways. And most important is those interest payments show up exactly and precisely on time like clockwork in my account which is great. I also own AIC and bought it intentionally right before going dark, holding until maturity. So I dont really worry there either.

      2. The few shares of AAIN that I held on to are showing up in my Etrade account as 041356809 with a value of $94.04. Now if only I could actually sell those shares at that price wouldn’t that be nice.

  14. Question—I own the FHLB 6% issue due 12/32. cusip # 3130AUB60 On 1/16/24, I received a principle payment of 1/3 of my investment. Schwab initially posted a full redemption and cancelled it one day later. However, Schwab did not cancel the 1/3 principle payment to me. Does anyone know what website I can use to verify the partial redemption? If there was not a redemption, why did Schwab not cancel the partial principle payment to me?

    I am hesitant to contact Schwab as I doubt I will be able to reach the right department/person who actually knows how to research this issue for me. I would appreciate any suggestions as to how I should proceed.

    1. Definitely call the Schwab fixed income desk 800-626-4600. Best time of day is very early.

  15. Took a starter position in Spire -A (SR.PRA) yesterday when it was xd at 24.40 for a 6.04% yield. If yields tick up I will add if this falls further. These small moves into sock-drawer type pfds are me putting ‘cash’ to work for slightly higher yields in strong div-well-covered names. Bea

    1. Bought SR -A in Sept. and Dec 2022 @ 23.30 and 23.20 just been holding. Not doing anything right now with rates up and waiting for the next FOMC meeting. I expect another punt with no cut in rates announced. See how the market reacts. Lots of BB issues coming to market that I feel most are low quality and high yield. I don’t want to get sucked into if the market drops. I could be waiting a long time of course.
      Sold some LXP- C at 47.31 sold too early but getting close to x-dividend date. I held for a year and collected 3 dividends plus a small profit. May buy back but then again with this market who knows.

      1. rocks2stocks it’s a perpetual. Has such a low coupon I will take the risk of it getting called.

      1. Bill ; i agree with you ; with a current yield of 7.5% and a big capital gain ;
        I’m in at 23.70 back in October; I can’t see this any higher; you can watch it for a day or so; see if the price tops out; its being run up on the next 50 cent dividend . so i plan on selling this week and putting the proceeds on CCIA ;

  16. If Corebridge Financial CRBG had a 6.9% fixed to 5-year reset (5yy + 3.9%) baby bond trading at par, maturity 2052, call Dec 2027, would you buy it?

  17. WRB earnings good.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/w-r-berkley-wrb-q4-222505946.html

    WRB BBs (coupon, current yield, call). Maturities 2058-2061.
    WRB-E 5.700% 5.70% 3/30/23 (callable now)
    WRB-F 5.100% 5.41% 12/30/24
    WRB-G 4.250% 5.02% 9/30/25
    WRB-H 4.125% 5.26% 3/30/26

    The only differences between these BBs are the coupons and call dates. So why are the current yields so far apart? Shouldn’t they all reflect the same fundamentals?

    WRB stock price bottomed in May 2023, around 6 months after the major indexes, and made all-time high this week. The BBs made double-bottom lows in fall 2022 and 2023. The WRB-G fall 2023 low was a noticeably higher low.

    There’s enough information in price charts to project price targets in both directions. The projections are not predictions, but become more reliable as a trend plays out.

    The WRB-G chart suggests a move to par. The answer to the question regarding the differences in current yields may be that they will all converge given enough time. WRB-G just might be the last to the party.

    I buy pfds/BBs for yield not cap gains, but I thought it would be fun to buy a tiny bit of WRB-G at 21.2, 5% just to see if it will confirm my theory. So I did.

    1. rocks2stocks—you hit on the difference–the coupon. The 5.7% has been more in demand as the top coupon–the others will move toward $25 IF interest rates move lower. Also if interest rates move lower WRB potentially (at some point) may call the E issue–the others may be outstanding forever.

  18. Why the disconnect of pricing on LANDO and LANDP?

    Currently LANDP ask 19.00 and LANDO bid 20.01.

  19. SPNT and AHL A reverse merger in the winds? I wonder what this could possibly mean for AHL preferreds? Is a reverse merger considered a change of control?

    I saw hints of this on SA but source info is here – you need a subscription to read it all, but headline is interesting (tried archive.ph and didn’t work for me)
    https://www.theinsurer.com/news/aspen-exploring-siriuspoint-reverse-merger-as-accelerated-way-to-go-public/

    Aspen exploring SiriusPoint reverse merger as accelerated way to go public

    Apollo owned Aspen Insurance Holdings is exploring a reverse merger with SiriusPoint as a potential alternative route to a public listing, a move that would allow for an easier and expedited process compared with a traditional IPO, The Insurer can reveal.

    1. 2WH
      Thanks for sharing.
      I’m long the SPNT-B and I’m curious if this will impact the security.
      It’s not callable until 2026 (and likely will be then) but I am curious if a change of control clause will have it be called earlier.

  20. Not sure if this was covered in new issues….posting for others to have awareness.

    Realty Income Prices $1.25 Billion Notes Offering
    MT NewswiresJanuary 09, 2024
    03:50 AM EST, 01/09/2024 (MT Newswires) — Realty Income (O) said late Monday it priced a public offering of $1.25 billion of senior unsecured notes in two tranches.

    The offering consists of $450 million of 4.75% senior unsecured notes due 2029 priced at 99.225% of par value, and $800 million of 5.125% senior unsecured notes due 2034 priced at 98.91% of par value.

    Net proceeds will be used for general corporate purposes, the company said.

    Closing of the offering is expected to occur on Jan. 16, subject to customary conditions.

    Price: 59.2, Change: -0.28, Percent Change: -0.47

    MT Newswires does not provide investment advice. Unauthorized reproduction is strictly prohibited.

    1. sorry all, realized I should have posted this in reader initiated alerts, and after looking through there is was already posted.

      Shoot then aim 🙂

      Will be sure to post under RIA next time!

    2. Just for reference – the old SRC-A issue (now O- ) was a $150 million issue

      Realty Income can find that as loose change in their couch cushions to redeem the preferred if they so desire given they just issued $450M at 4.75% and $800M at $5.125%

  21. Some buyer got screwed on UEPEO

    210 shares at $99.97 – up over $25 today

    Alas they didn’t want anymore – I tried selling after seeing that price

    1. HAWLM had something like that a day or two ago as well. Someone bought right up to 17 per share. This was available for last weeks well below that price. Matter of fact the last trade is still 17 when it was below 14 for ages now. Almost like someone wants some hundreds of shares and just plops in a market order.

  22. I can’t find a good reason for WAFDP (4.875% fixed pfd, call 4/15/26) to be trading at a current yield of 8%. On Mar 10, 2023 pre-crash, WAFDP closed at 18.44, yield 6.6%. Then on Mar 13, 2023 it got hammered along with other regional banks, eventually made a low at 12.3, and has recovered to 15.xx.

    I couldn’t find any news articles or data suggesting that Washington Fed is anything other that a solid. conservative regional with an excellent track record. What’s a reasonable yield for WAFD now that bank fear has abated. 7%?

    I don’t know which way WAFDP price goes next, but I like it at 8% and bought some.

    1. Rocks, you pose an interesting question. I think the best way to answer it is to tell you what I told an old retired overseas client the other day that was asking about an arbitrage on an upcoming merger. Look at the safest yield you can get (US Treasuries/CD’s and maybe Vanguard Money Market) and take the yield (let’s say it’s a no risk 5% for a period of time) and look at the spread to the securities you are considering. If WAFDP is currently yielding 8%, your current spread would be 3%; is it worth the risk to your base capital for the extra 3%? What is your plan if the riskier security falls apart. The risk is not just monetary, but can you sleep well at night too. I sell a lot of covered calls against my long individual equity positions because to me they are a no risk trade and I can generate an enormous amount of income for my holding time. I own more equity index funds (VOO, VHT and VTI) and more Treasuries and CD’s than I ever have in my investment portfolio.
      In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield, I am Azure

      1. Thanks, Azure.
        Congrats on your use of covered calls.

        Most of my dough is in safe fixed income. I’ve spent the last month learning about pfds/BBs, including reading the great info here.

        I rarely trade. My first criterion for buying a pfd is that I feel the odds are very high that the dividend will be paid for as many years as I wish to hold it, including that the parent is historically profitable. Second, from looking at charts, I want to see that the market has a favorable opinion of the stock and the parent. Third, I want to understand why the current yield is what it is. It’s helpful if the stock is rated IG.

        My biggest pfd/BB holding is 0.5% of portfolio. Most are much less. Here’s hoping I’m being sufficiently conservative and that the many eyeballs here will spot trouble before it takes root. It’s fun to be part of the group!

      2. AB,
        Working with overseas clients can be educational.

        When I started putting together deals in greater China (PRC, HK, TW), it surprised me how common the thinking was “reversed” from that of most of the people in the US I worked with.

        The first questions I am almost always asked (in various forms) is “how much can I lose” and “what is the risk” – way before we get to “how much could this earn” or “how would this benefit me”.

        In my experience, it isn’t that people in those cultures are more risk averse, they just start from the other side when “balancing the scale”.

        1. Private, My experience is a bit different. I work in the GCC and Pak/India. Started out with military logistics and then transitioned into food and beverage. What I observe (which is why I remain so confident USA will be leader for years), is the fear to take a risk. In India, I had a partner that had failed in his first venture. He described this to me: “In India when I fail I shame myself and my family. No risk is worth shaming your family. In the US when I fail I am told to get up off the floor and try again.” I have observed this cultural shaming in all the countries I work in. I haven’t worked in China so cannot speak to it. Immigrants come to the USA for this culture of “if you don’t succeed at first, try again.” Just my experience over the last 20 years. PS I have found the GCC is changing.

          1. TNT,
            We work with a lot of hi/clean-tech/electronics manufacturing, software, etc. Haven’t done much in the food and beverage (and we stay away from anything military other than the US).

            I have found that in China, there are folks who are willing to take risk, but they not all that common. Most of the “best” execs at this (that I have worked with) are either from outside PRC (HK. Macau, TW…) or are PRC who had studied or worked outside China. The few PRC folks who have done neither tend to be from the “PRC Aristocracy” – families that were part of the initial Mao revolution and who have carried on as the country’s “elite” (which is ironic, in a communist country). Those folks have successes and failures and manage the appearances well enough, I guess (we have helped “paper over” some failures for appearance purposes).

            We have done some work in the Gulf, but mostly for sovereign funds/investors. They usually have a lot of smart people working for them, and they have few failures (sometimes they have to drown a problem in cash, or “move the goalposts”, but they aren’t failures…)

            I have worked on a number of projects in India and all have pretty much been failures (IMHO).

            We tried helping several clients set up up export manufacturing in India (over several decades – not in the last 10 years or so) and the corruption was just insurmountable. In one project, they tried to get a sample shipment out and finally gave up after two years. Other attempts had similar failures. Even with seemingly “good” local partners, they just couldn’t get over the problems.

            It was what I call “idiot corruption”. Every time parts/products needed to move (and there are multiple little steps in getting something out of a country, as you know), some idiot would want a bribe. Not a big bribe (often just a few dollars), but it stopped everything for weeks or months. Once that was settled, the next idiot would show up and everything would stop again… On and on.

            We see a lot of corruption like this (its the way of the world), but many countries (PRC, Thailand, Malaysia, etc.) have what I call “smart” corruption. They are smart enough to know that if they stop/slow shipments, they kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Usually they either put the touch on local suppliers (recognizing that US companies are potentially at huge risk if they get caught paying bribes), or one entity comes in and asks for “donations” to things like the “civic improvement society” and takes care of the rest of the corruption – and because they are often the police or other powerful gov. entity doing the “requests”, the rest of the corrupt toe the line (if someone else ever comes to ask, you just make a call and they stop asking or disappear). Not endorsing corruption, but if you have to deal with it, its nice when they are efficient.

            Helped a few folks try starting programming operations in India (moving operations from US/EU to India), but most eventually failed. India has lots of people with education, but it is almost impossible to find engineers who could actually do complex work and take leadership on a project. Needed far too much hand holding from the US/Europe and could never “mature” beyond the hand holding. Conclusion was that it slowed everything down too much and still tied up lots of US/EU skill (which could do the work faster by themselves), so no real “savings”. Not saying there aren’t skills in India – only that clients couldn’t find enough and couldn’t get them to stay long enough to build a team (attrition rate was enormous).

            Of course, I only see our experiences. I am sure there are others who have other experiences.

            1. Private, I know you’re pretty knowledgeable about China and I was wondering if you saw the news today about the British businessman who was jailed for 5yrs over there with claims of being a spy. They haven’t been able to find out exactly what he has been charged with. One of the things about his history doing business there is that he wrote a book in the early 2000’s about people he met doing business there. There was also an incident in England in a shopping mall where a man was playing piano and doing a video. In the background was a group of what was tourists from the PRC they demanded he quit filming them and I think they asked him to delete his video.

    2. Re WaFd post …. on Tues Jan 16, the bank posted the Dec Qrtlys & annual earnings report. December Qtr vs Sept Qtr favorable …. YET Yr over Yr were poor to mixed.

      1. Jim, I found this interesting in their Jan 16th report.
        Commercial loans represented 75% of all loan originations during the first fiscal quarter of 2024 and consumer loans accounted for the remaining 25%. Commercial loans are preferable as they generally have floating interest rates and shorter durations. The weighted average interest rate on the loan portfolio was 5.25% as of December 31, 2023, an increase from 5.22% as of September 30, 2023, due primarily to higher rates on adjustable-rate loans and newly originated loans.
        They had also increased the amount of loans from the FHLB between Sept. and Dec.

    3. Don’t know about long-term, but at least for today it was a good trade!

  23. Purchased a starter position today in AGM -C for 24.89 starts floating in July with a reset every 3 months.

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