Illiquid Preferred Securities Discussion

On this page folks should comment and write about illiquid securities–preferreds and baby bonds. By Illiquid I am talking about those issues that seldom trade–or only trade in very small volumes.

We have a lot of discussion on the site about these types of securities–normally $50 and $100/shares issues and the commenting gets scattered about–by using this page we can keep this topic more centralized.

A caution to all investors, but in particular those will little experience in illiquid securities. Tight limits must be used on all of these securities–if you don’t use limits you will butchered. Also while some of these issues have been outstanding for more than 50 years they can still be called–it happens and if you overpay (pay more than liquidation price) you may be setting yourself up for a loss. Always do your own due diligence–always double check the facts–everyone makes errors (certainly I do) and you need to know the facts.

Investors should know that illiquid securities will drop like a rock if there is a large move higher in interest rates. One of my current and long time holdings has been a $50/share issue from CEF Tricontinental (TY-P or TY-) with a 5% coupon–very high quality. This issue is now trading around $56, but in its life (issued in 1963) it has traded as low at $18/share–so there should be no doubt they can move sharply.

903 thoughts on “Illiquid Preferred Securities Discussion”

  1. Over the last few days there appears to be some selling of CKNQP ahead of the ex-date on 3/14. Current ask is $99.00.

  2. Seems the account I am holding my CTA PRA has been reinvesting the dividends in the stock. I started out owning 300 shares and am now up to 309.384 I don’t mind, just thought it kind of funny they are doing that.

      1. lukky, I also own the B and its not being dripped either, so I don’t know what the story is

  3. GMLPF:
    FWIW, Just got a fill on an old GTC bid at 10.20. I suppose I may never see the principal, but it’s earning ~20-21% in my Roth.

    1. I wouldn’t call GMLPF illiquid. Your low stink bid will rarely trade because… well it was in the gutter. But this trades thousands of shared per day. illiquid is a stock that well… rarely trades/exchanges hands.

      1. OK, I stand corrected. Seems there wasn’t much trading after it went into the pink sheets. I vaguely recall it being discussed here when it went OTC, but perhaps that was in the Sandbox.

          1. I had some in my WF account, and IIRC, couldn’t put it in a bid. Fido allows me to bid on it, as well as some others, like LTSF/K.

      2. I stand corrected, my source is wrong. Probably because it went dark and systems dont know how to handle that.

  4. I see shares of PCG-A moving for $24.74. I can’t believe this one is trading up to a 6% current yield. Seems like there are much safer ways to make 6%+

    1. Dick, PCG is a crazy company. Preferreds went up through both bankruptcies. Seems the more people they kill, the better they do.

      They just announced that profits are up 25%, and they did so right after they applied for another huge rate increase (can you say “tone deaf”?). they are asking to start charging users immediately for all the capital expenditures they want to make, like burying lines, even though some of the improvements won’t be made for a lot of years.

      Good thing that they have our idiot governor in their pocket.

      Confession: I hate the company, but I have been flipping their preferreds again. Dancing with the devil for a few shekels…

    1. CNLHP is sitting out there at $36.00 x 1000 for a yield of 6.25%.

      CTA-B, even after the price has recovered somewhat from the high selling volume, is yielding 6.35%.

      1. I just keep nibbling on these names as payments roll in. Nice being able to pick up less than 100 shares when the ask is just sitting there. I probably annoy the seller tho 😉

        I wonder if Grid uses that technique. Oh.. I see you are selling 100 shares at 36. I see that you dislike my bid of 34.50. Be a shame if I buy 5 of those shares and knock you off the ask. Then in frustration you will dump to me at 3:45 PM.

        Not sure if that still works in every situation. I felt it did in the past. Have not paid enough attention to see if < 100 shares fails to show up as the cheapest shares on the ask.

        1. I will occassionally do smaller orders too when I have dividend money come in. These days it seems like I mostly just hit the ask price on whatever looks most appealing at the time.

          Today I was able to sell my SCHW-J for $20.87 (5.3% current yield) and use the proceeds to add to CNLHP (6.25% current yield). I would’ve sold SCHW-J sooner, but I had a large unrealized gain and it was in a taxable account. Oh well, the IRS will be happy with this switch LOL.

          I was also able to add to KTH at around $28.47. If I strip out the accrued interest, I come up with a YTM of 6.5% at that price.

        2. Fc, I dont tend to play the small lot game, mostly because of cost. For me Im paying $6.95 on OTC transactions, so I tend to buy and sell more in bulk when possible instead of sub 100 lots. And focus on the illiquid that day that seems in play either way then work from there.

          1. Fidelity OTC trades are commission free. There I can do small volume.
            At ETrade, for the $4.95 commission, I wouldn’t trade less than 100 shares.

          2. Looks like ally with their free OTC trades actually has a positive to weigh against their otherwise lousy experience ever since they moved me from the old Tradeking platform to the newer Ally version.

            I swear Tradeking was the perfect platform. Clean, simple, and just worked once used to it.

    2. AILLO is out there with an ask of $68.00 (6.25% current yield).

      More shares of KTH are moving around $28.47. The current ask is $28.66…I get a YTM of 6.3% at that price.

      1. You crack me up, Dick…I just read this. I had a 100 share order at $68 hit today on AILLO I see. Although the rest were bought a lot lower, this is my biggest QDI perpetual issue. And KTH…Though I didnt buy any today, I renetered the position strongly within past couple months and its my biggest individual position now. That issue largely keeps promiscuous money out of trouble.

        1. KTH has a maturity date that lines up very nicely for our goals. It’s one of our largest issues, but it’s still way behind CTA-B…I add a LOT when it was getting dumped recently. By a lot, I mean all of my wanton promiscuous money (and maybe some of my chaste, virginal money as well).

      2. Dick, KTH will be redeemed on 06 apr 2028 at $25+accrued, correct? At $28.66, I calculate a YTM of 4.9%. How do you get 6.3%?

        1. $27.10…..OID, baby….That is why it pays out more than “par” at redemption because brokerage bought the actual real McCoy discounted subordinated notes below par. The actual underlying bond came out 3 years before the brokerage bought a load of them and tossed them in a trust and repackaged them into certificates for their retail buyer clients.

    1. Geez. I missed my chance to add to my 11 shares. I would have been a buyer. I used to leave a bid sitting out there for 100 shares cheap but over time I would simply get outbid by a dollar. I gave up. Now I only glance to see what the current ask is from time to time.

    2. David, I remember in the good old days I bought 300 shares at like $90, $100 and $110. And sold them all at over $150. $109 would have been awesome a couple years ago. And now in todays regional bank world yield, that $109 is just a normal yield now isnt it. Of course it is cumulative which is very unique still.

  5. Logged into the account today to see that sometime this past week I managed to purchase my first few shares of CNPWP. 33.40. Not the best, but over 6% yield so I’ll take it.

    1. There was some discussion maybe a few weeks ago regarding the chance these would move to the expert market. I noticed looking at the OTC page that the ‘Dark’ designation has been taken off all the Connecticut Light & Power preferreds. I take that to be good news.

      1. I guess in theory that could cause the price to tumble. I only put in orders for these when I have enough capital gain in the accounts that my % for sock drawer is below my threshold. Once I buy these I don’t even bother looking at them. No one likes to see capital depreciation on anything, but I don’t care about the shares price of these.

        KTBA would be an example of 500 shares I’m forever underwater on. My kids might care about that 12,500 in the future, but the good news is the dividends will have paid me more than that!

      2. See below for what IR at Eversource emailed me last month.

        Also, CTA-A and CTA-B still trade with 6%+ yields and are both way under their respective redemption prices.


        We have been waiting to get confirmation from OTC regarding their decision to put CL&P and NSTAR Electric in the limited information tier and have finally heard back. Both CL&P and NSTAR Electric have ongoing reporting obligations under Section 13 of the Exchange Act due to debt securities that have been issued in registered transactions so OTC would be able to continue reviewing the Company filings again directly from the SEC system. As this understanding has just been communicated this afternoon I don’t know how long it will take for OTC to get rid of the Limited Information tab on all of the preferred issuances, but that will be done.



        Melissa Cameron
        Program Manager, Investor Relations
        Eversource Energy
        247 Station Drive, Westwood, MA 02090

      3. Yes, Pig, Dick’s explanation cleared up the confusion. And OTC acknowledged that. As the CLP issues were on 15 day “grace period” heading to expert before CLP coordinated with OTC to end the potential nasty result. Clearly ES is making sure these issues remain tradeable. I have some and have no worries myself.

    2. I am in the same boat as you lukkyseven. I don’t feel like always chasing yield over quality so sometimes I just have to bite the bullet and buy these old UTES on the otc. CNPWM has an ask of 34.25 which will yield 6.1%. Nothing really to get excited about but I added a bit just now. I need more boring in my life I suppose. It just paid out it’s div in Feb so it will be another 3 months before a pay day. I did not even bother try to time that.

      CNLHP ex div date is 2/8 so one can time that a bit better but the price is out of whack currently. I try to keep an eye on how they don’t all pay in lock step.

      1. Dont feel bad, Fc. I added to my NSARP collection at $69 today. And also bought some NMKCP at $64 this morning too.

        1. I was considering NSARO earlier. I did not check P. I basically wanted a reasonable ask with a reasonable yeild and just buy. No waiting required. I see that P is right in the same yield area. Quantum does not have NMKCP data. Not sure what that yields.

          1. Fc, NSARP was just laying there for the taking at $69 so I bought it earlier today. Quantum is asleep at the wheel with NMKCP. In Quantum it will be listed as NMK-C . It was delisted by NGG last month and now trades on OTC under NMKCP. Same thing with NMKBP which was NMK-B before delisting. They now join their sister NMPWP which used to be NMK-A but it was delisted 20 years ago by itself for whatever reason unbeknownst to me.

            1. That was my NSARP. I hit the bid and then kept it out there. Just reducing my overweight to fund some new REIT purchases.

              1. We just keep trading baseball cards back and forth, ha. I was doing the opposite. Restocking as I got some in 60s and sold in 70s and wanted to get back in.

  6. For those walking on the wild side interested in HE preferreds here is a good all inclusive source.
    Although Hawaii is pretty protective of their ute, I am not an income hold fan here. The potential liability is massive. But that doesnt keep me from a trade though. HAWLI dropped back to $11 so I bought 1000 for a trade as that yield was way over 100 bps higher in yield than the sis’s. We shall see….

  7. UEPEO last traded at $99.97 and last trade volume was 210 shares, according to TD. I don’t see any reason for the sudden jump in price from around $74. The bid was around $73 and the low was $73.45. The total volume for the day was 660 which is high for this preferred.

      1. You could put in a GTC sale order at $95 or some other high price and hope for the best. I have one in on UEPEN at $100 hoping someday someone loses their mind and just had to own some at any price.

  8. NMK-B and NMK-C (Niagara Power Corp preferreds additionally guaranteed by NGG) were delisted last month and quickly went to OTC with new tickers. NMKBP and NMKCP. They havent really traded too much as their floats are largely roached out to begin with. But I did recently manage to get over 300 shares of NMKCP between $60-$64.

    1. It took me like a year to get some NMK pref (I lived in the NiaMohawk days & region so it had some nostalgic for me) but then as rates went up I took the loss. Now I may go back in, but still find others paying more…kinda wish I had just forgot it as it was so hard to buy when interest rates were paying NOTHING. Dang.

      1. Tizod, its a tiny float to begin with. Maybe ~100,000 shares left over after Niagara (NGG) offered a tender around 20 years ago. Quite a few accepted the tender. I bought a couple hundred at $65 I beleive right after it went to OTC and then sold at $72. So I am just repurchasing what I had. Its a Niagara preferred but its so entangled with NGG that NGG also backstops it too. You just couldnt get a fair price with them when they were on NYSE. They are trading a bit softer on OTC. The sister NMKBP had a dump today also.

      2. Tizod, if your still into nostalgia and a 6% coupon, NMKCP is paying there for the taking at $64.90. I flushed the seller down to here with a sell order then pulled and bought some more between $64.50-.90 today. Just filling out my full position. Not my favorite yield but still bouncing around 2003 levels.

  9. We’ve gone from the absurd to the ridiculous! BACRP, a largely illiquid , non-callable, legacy, $100 B of A preferred with a 7% coupon has been trading in the stratosphere for a little over a year. With a few exceptions, the trading range has been about $175 to $300 since late 2022 (yield of 2.3 to 4%). About 7100 shares are outstanding and volumes are very low–often a share or two every few days. Today, with total volume at a whopping six shares, there was a trade at $500 (1.4%)–which is also the current bid (current ask is about $1000!). The speculation was that it was too expensive for B of A to do a tender offer, given the small volume of outstanding shares, so it is buying shares on the open market. But, based on being in and out of this issue for a few years, I don’t think that’s what’s happening. Anyone know or want to venture a guess about why anyone would buy BACRP at $500 a share?

    1. Geez, now you are quizzing me on your and Grids notes. Does it restrict Bofa from doing XYZ?

    2. Oldman, I was patting myself on the back buying at $140 and flipping over $200 several times with probably 300 or so shares in total last year. But, damn, I was getting ripped off selling in $220-$240 range. I should have held out for $500!

    3. I bought 200 at $107 and sold them at $170 and thought I was brilliant. Little did I know that my $63 gain was chum change.

      1. Randy, we were fools! The damndest thing is I know yesterday we could have bought a few at $250 and doubled our money today.

        1. Rida’s Revenge, obviously….

          Using subscriber fees to overpay for forever income.

        2. Sold one share at $325.this week. Obviously holding out for more now….

          On paper 284% gain on remaining shares.

          1. Legend do have any more to parcel out to sell? Just one small step below the craziness of BACRP pricing is the fact I just noticed my CRLKP got paid 6 days ago and I didnt notice. Only 10 days late, its usually 3 weeks late so I wasnt even looking for it yet.

              1. Been slow, they are just now organizing the shareholder approval vote which will be held Feb. 9. A few weeks after the announcement came out I got bored and kind of parceled out deeper into documents and found this below which could mean this issue gets redeemed. But maybe not as it hasnt been redeemed with other buyouts in the past. So its a controlled gamble. If it gets redeemed I score a quick biggie, if it doesnt I made sure to only buy comfortably over 10% YTM so I can make it worth my time if needed to hold 4 years of “eternal darkness”.
                I own about 2k shares so that is enough for me and that took close to 2 months to get those as I am not overpaying for them.
                In addition, in connection with and conditioned upon the Effective Time, Parent must provide and make available to SP+ in immediately available funds in an amount equal to the amount necessary for SP+ and its subsidiaries to repay and discharge in full all amounts outstanding or otherwise due and owing pursuant to the terms of the financing arrangements set forth in the disclosure letter delivered by SP+ to Parent simultaneously with the execution of the Merger Agreement (the “Company Debt”), including accrued interest thereon and all fees and other obligations (including penalties or other charges or amounts that become payable thereunder as a result of the prepayment thereunder or the consummation of the transactions contemplated at the closing of the Merger or that may become due and payable at the Effective Time) of SP+ or any of its subsidiaries thereunder (collectively, the “Debt Payoff Amount”). Subject to Parent’s compliance with the previous sentence, SP+ shall pay the Debt Payoff Amount to the counterparties under the Company Debt as promptly as practicable following the date SP+ receives such Debt Payoff Amount. SP+ shall use its reasonable best efforts to, on or prior to the Closing Date, provide Parent with (i) a customary payoff letter (the “Payoff Letter”) from the agent under the Credit Agreement, dated as of November 30, 2018, as amended through and including the Fifth Amendment dated as of April 21, 2022, among SP+, as borrower, the guarantors party thereto, the lenders party thereto and Bank of America, N.A., as administrative agent (the “Existing Credit Agreement”), which Payoff Letter shall set forth the aggregate amount required to satisfy in full all amounts outstanding or otherwise due and owing by SP+ and any of its subsidiaries thereunder and shall provide for a release of all liens and guarantees thereunder upon the receipt of the respective payoff amounts specified in the Payoff Letter and (ii) drafts of the customary lien release and termination documents related to the Payoff Letter.

                1. Irish, I should add I have tried to contact SP investor relations and find them like 80% of the others as being useless as teets on a boar and wont even respond. Some are worried about AI taking over peoples jobs, well here is a good place to start chopping off the dead wood. At least AI can generate a response back.

  10. Todays Diary:

    Sell Ameren prefs to the large buyer.
    Buy CNTHO from the large seller.


    1. I wasnt a seller today, but I took a little bite of some CNTHO when they were just sitting there with a 6.4% yield. You like illiquids how about this goofy one from a small regional bank. BORTP…It was privately placed to exisiting shareholders who wanted to participate. Its a 7% yield and “par” $28. Yep $28.
      Issued last year, and effective in 5 years the BOD can convert the preferred 1 for 1 into common stock whenever it desires or later. It hasnt really traded much, and has a current not serious ask of $40 while the common sits around $28.

      1. Jeez, Grid, now that’s an oddball.

        I’m a bad diary writer.. I sold union electrics today, not Ameren.

        I probably should’ve held out for the silly bids, but needed the cash.

        Also sold a chunk of GOODN. It’s still good long term but had to use something to fund my LXP-C habit.

        1. Well, you really arent too far off. Although the old name stays on the books the subsidiary is now called Ameren Missouri.
          If I owned that bank preferred I damn well would be hoping the board members owned them too so they wouldn’t convert at an inopportune time.

  11. File this under FWIW, but I noticed the CLP issues all have this tag on them now…
    Warning! Limited Information
    OTC Markets Group has confirmed that this company has limited disclosure or financial information publicly available, but meets a minimum requirement for public quoting under Rule 15c2-11. The Pink Limited Information tier may include companies that are delinquent in their filing obligations with the SEC, a foreign exchange or regulator, or under the Pink Disclosure Guidelines, as well as non-U.S. companies listed on a foreign exchange that does not require English disclosure and do not certify their compliance with SEC Rule 12g3-2(b).
    And off to the right side it says “grace period” and “dark and defunct”.

      1. Grid I found this on Yahoo
        I always start worrying when politicians start trying to change things. Read down to the las paragraph or so where the VP tells them there is a lot of cost in running a utility and keeping up the infrastructure.
        People complaining about the high cost of their utility bill ought to move to England where they put a pay as you go meter on your house.
        This change in how the state government will try to control costs worries me as to how it would affect the CLP preferred. Will ES let them go dark?

        1. Charles, We’re in the same rowboat here. CLP pfds were by far my largest position until their financial disclosure speed-bump and attempt at walking it back in October. By YE 2023 I’d sold everything under the ES umbrella. While not blaming them, I do not trust the ES board to act in the best interest of preferred stockholders.

      2. I have been trading them quite often past few months as they have been bouncers. Great trading vehicles. It has slowed down recently and I only have one. The Ameren issues have been and are more of my personal interest to hold.
        I dont quite know what to think. IR told someone here who passed on info stating they would be unaffected. So why is that 15 day grace period icon on their stock pages? I dont know.
        Are they going to follow OTC guidelines and report info to them? Is it needed or even matter? The financials are publicly available through state regulators but that doesnt matter otherwise MSSEL would be publicly tradeable too, as it isnt. A lot of preferreds in general are getting close to aggravating or almost not worth the effort or anxiety.
        Charles, any material loss in profits would likely harm the holding company ES more than the CLP preferred shareholders. As they need the cash from all their subsidiaries to pay their debt holders and dividends. And these preferreds in effect sit above them. So ES would definitely be squealing the most.

        1. Eversource is such a high quality issue. I will buy if others dump, even if it means I am stuck with it for life. Could be worse things to be stuck with…

          1. Maine, there certainly isnt anything wrong with Eversource. Remember its just a do nothing shell that makes no money. It’s all the subsidiaries that provide them profits. In theory Eversource could go bankrupt and CLP still pay its preferred dividends. And I certainly dont have any worries of the subs including NSTAR paying. Im just personally not wanting a M-M hit from an expert market tag slapped on it. And that may not ever happen either, as it really shouldn’t. I own a few still, like you said if there is a serious dump I will hold my nose and buy some too and be forced to treat as an annuity.

            1. Grid, understood. And thanks for the tidbits on the nuances. These illiquids are strange widgets, and I know you are a connoisseur. It all comes down to whether someone pukes them up. I think we are all waiting for that..

              Charles. I dunno. Just being honest that a) I don’t think they will go dark , but b) I like the name regardless. So if someone throws out a stink offer, I’ll consider it a gift. It could be a mistake, won’t be the first time.

              I’ve had a good run, probably better than I deserve. MREIT common and pref, REIT common, MLPS common and pref.. buy decent names when retail is puking, and don’t be afraid to concentrate. So if I get stuck with an Eversource annuity, it may force me to allocate more of my time outside the markets.. prob a good thing.

              1. Maine, I posted something, then deleted it as I hadnt seen Dicks post yet which was very informative.

                1. Grid. I bought some more of the SJIJ 2031 5 coupon bonds today. I had to use Fido so didn’t get great execution but will take the 8% for my IRA.

                  It reminded me that these bonds are scheduled to go dark starting next year (January?) if the exemption isn’t extended. Something to look forward to 🙃.

                  1. Maine, that is partially why I have been a little hesitate with CLP issues. I own a couple thousand of the old SJIJ baby bond along with a lot smaller amount of AIC. Im hoping to take a little bite out of the 6.9% Main St bond if its available on online. Supposed to trade tomm but maybe not where I can access it. Too lazy to call on this one.

                    1. Yikes, is 6.9% the new normal for BDC debt?!

                      Main Street is a solid… but dang.

                      CSWC is almost as good of a name as MAIN. Hence I’d prefer CSWCZ which has 7.75% coupon and trades 35 cents above $25 par.

                      And if you want juicier ; the PNNT bond offers a nice yield for a 2026 maturity.

                    2. I owned CSWCZ before for a quick flip. Nothing wrong with it. But it is callable in less than 2 years and Main St issue is a 5 year make whole debt issue. Im just not a fan of BDC stuff, so I at best will only buy the big dog name for a real bond hold til maturity issue.

                    3. Irish, I saw that this morning. They didnt waste anytime trying to scalp me, so Im a hard pass on principal alone.

    1. I emailed IR at ES and here is the response I just received:

      We have been waiting to get confirmation from OTC regarding their decision to put CL&P and NSTAR Electric in the limited information tier and have finally heard back. Both CL&P and NSTAR Electric have ongoing reporting obligations under Section 13 of the Exchange Act due to debt securities that have been issued in registered transactions so OTC would be able to continue reviewing the Company filings again directly from the SEC system. As this understanding has just been communicated this afternoon I don’t know how long it will take for OTC to get rid of the Limited Information tab on all of the preferred issuances, but that will be done.



      Melissa Cameron
      Program Manager, Investor Relations
      Eversource Energy
      247 Station Drive, Westwood, MA 02090

      1. It’s been fixed on otcmarkets. I’m impressed with their timely response to investors’ concerns.

      2. Thank you Dick for taking the initiative to contact investor relations. I am sure many of the folks here have positions in these issues and they will be relieved to hear this.

        1. It appears to be fixed online now.

          To anyone new to preferred investing, reaching out to investor relations can sometimes be very helpful and anyone can do it. I’m just an individual investor and I’ve received answers to questions from many Fortune 500 companies reasonably quickly over the years.

          They’re not always responsive and helpful (ES was very good here), but it doesn’t cost anything to try. I certainly wouldn’t liquidate a position in a company that I really like without at least making an attempt.

  12. Anybody else receive the LyondellBasell notification in the mail regarding your convertible special stock.

    1. I did and at least one other person here did. It was mentioned here a few weeks ago.

  13. 13% of the HAWLN float went for ~9.1% ($11) this afternoon. Somebody wanted out, lol.

  14. CKNQP looks like a decent buy with a current ask of $97. I added to my position today.

    1. I added as well. Hard to resist assuming it will be called in a year which provides a 9.4% YTM!! If only I had more dry powder.

      1. If CKNQP is not called, it will float: “After 1/1/2025 dividends will accrue at an annual rate equal to 3-month USD LIBOR plus 3.744 percent.”

        1. Yes, here is an excerpt from the prospectus that discusses LIBOR:

          “3-Month USD LIBOR” means, with respect to any Dividend Period, a rate determined on the basis of the offered rates for three-month U.S. dollar deposits of not less than a principal amount equal to that which is representative for a single transaction in such market at such time, commencing on the first day of such Dividend Period, which appears on Page LIBOR 01 as of approximately 11:00 a.m., London time, on the LIBOR Determination Date for such Dividend Period. If on any LIBOR Determination Date no rate appears on Page LIBOR 01 as of approximately 11:00 a.m., London time, CoBank will on such LIBOR Determination Date request four major reference banks in the London interbank market selected by CoBank to provide CoBank with a quotation of the rate at which three month deposits in U.S. dollars, commencing on the first day of such Dividend Period, are offered by them to prime banks in the London interbank market as of approximately 11:00 a.m., London time, on such LIBOR Determination Date and in a principal amount equal to that which is representative for a single transaction in such market at such time. If at least two such quotations are provided, 3-Month USD LIBOR for such Dividend Period will be the arithmetic mean (rounded upward if necessary to the nearest .00001 of 1%) of such quotations as calculated by CoBank. If fewer than two quotations are provided, 3-Month USD LIBOR for such Dividend Period will be the arithmetic mean (rounded upward if necessary to the nearest .00001 of 1%) of the rates quoted as of approximately 11:00 a.m., New York time, on the first day of such Dividend Period by three major banks in New York, New York selected by CoBank for loans in U.S. dollars to leading European banks, for a three-month period commencing on the first day of such Dividend Period and in a principal amount of not less than
          $1,000,000. If no such quotations are available or if CoBank determines there are no suitable banks that are prepared to provide such quotations, CoBank will determine 3-Month USD LIBOR for such Dividend Period in a manner that it deems commercially reasonable by reference to such additional resources as it deems appropriate.

          1. But that’s all moot, because:
            1. There’s no way they’ll let it float
            2. We’ve learned that such language can be interpreted however the issuer wants, despite the best efforts of the ARCC

            1. David,
              I agree with you. We win if it is called and also if it floats. Nice position to be in!

          2. Although this is referring to loans Cobank is making, not to preferreds outstanding, it does lead to an expectation I would think as to how they will be handling LIBOR/SOFR –

            CoBank hereby gives you notice that, to the extent CoBank has discretion to propose a benchmark replacement for LIBOR or to implement a benchmark replacement under the Loan Documents or applicable law, we will be proposing or will be implementing a benchmark replacement equal to the benchmark replacement selected by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (“Board-selected benchmark replacement”) under Section 253.4(b)(1) of Regulation ZZ (12 C.F.R. 253.4(b)(1)) promulgated by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System under the Adjustable Interest Rate (LIBOR) Act (12 U.S.C. 5801 et seq.) (the “LIBOR Act”). The Board-selected benchmark replacement equals the sum of (a) CME Term SOFR Reference Rates published for the applicable tenor as administered by CME Group Benchmark Administration Ltd. (or any successor administrator thereof) (“CME Term SOFR”)* plus (b) the applicable tenor spread adjustment identified in the chart below.

            It does go on to say other things regarding if they do not have discretion, etc., so if you’re interested, be sure to read the whole statement.

    2. Called Schwab on this one: they told me it is restricted and only for accredited investors. Some kind of BS I think(?). E-trade let me buy it, no questions asked,

      1. A Schwab agent told me it’s considered to be expert market. Weird that it doesn’t behave like other expert market stocks like SLMNP (no “closing transactions only” message). He did say you could place a trade by phone since they have to read a disclosure to you. I guess they didn’t give you that option.

        (Reminder, if you have to place a trade by phone because of their policies, make sure they waive the normal broker assistance fee.)

  15. CTA-B has a current ask of $70.45. It has a yield of 6.4% at that price and an ex-date coming up on 1/11. S&P rates this one at BBB. It’s callable anytime at $120. I added to my position today.

        1. Are you buying the A around the same yield? I would assume so since it’s the same rating/risk level.

          1. I bought the A in Nov and early Dec when there were several dumpings. Somebody wanted out of them over a span of 3ish weeks. Now there is a hint in the air over the past few weeks and people want them back. But… i’m too lazy to dig through the drawer to find them.

    1. I swapped some of my CNTHP for the CTA-B, higher divi and a lot more potential for capital gains. Always on the lookout for upgrades to the portfolio. Thanks.

      1. In my opinion Fryman, great swap. Move from one to another with ~ yield, but the chance for cap gain is big. I own a bunch of CNTHP, and have a sell order at $54 (might not happen in a year 🙂 ). There was another large dumping a month ago with higher volumes, so you would think this is a double bounce off of that for a good support for lows. Just my opinion. I have been vacuum sweeping several issues from decades old preferreds that have big cap gains for the last few months. Many have now accepted 5% as a good safe hold, but I’ll take a several decades old preferred over that any day for 6%+. My personal goal is 6% for many years.

        I am still a slave. :-). I have a mortgage at 2.5% and a car loan at 2.1% for years to come. By the way, when buying a vehicle, make sure that you get prequal loan from your bank. The last car I bought said they gave me a great rate of 8% and were happy/giddy to present that to me. I then showed them I am prequalified for 2.2%. They left the room and came back and said they forgot to send to a couple of banks, and a new bank offered 2.1%. The bank is one of the 3 largest in the US…

        1. wanted to clarify… I am buying utility preferreds that are 6%+ that have potential for “future” cap gains. These in my opinion have not really rallied like the traditional preferreds. I own several over many years, and I am under water on several. But I dont need the income for another 15 years. They are not for sale other than CNTHP, but I have a high limit order on it.

        2. AQNB is down a quite a bit today too. Anyone know why? I trimmed a little earlier this morning at $24.95 and I’m now seeing it available for $24.08. Thinking of buying some back.

  16. NMK-B and NMK-C will be getting delisted from NYSE soon Niagara Mohawk Power announced last week. These are ridiculously priced and have been continuously. Maybe when they join the old sister NMK-A which was delisted 20 years ago on OTC a better deal will come about.

    Item 3.01. Notice of Delisting or Failure to Satisfy a Continuing Listing Rule or Standard; Transfer of Listing. Delisting and Deregistration of Preferred Stock Niagara Mohawk Power Company (“NMPC”), an indirect wholly-owned subsidiary of National Grid plc (“NG”), together with NG publicly announced on December 11, 2023 its intention to voluntarily delist its 3.60% Preferred Stock and 3.90% Preferred Stock, which are both guaranteed fully and unconditionally by NG (together with the applicable guarantees by NG, the “Preferred Stock”) from the New York Stock Exchange (the “NYSE”) by filing Form 25 with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Com…
    Looks like it will be later this week.
    Here is the presser. Looks like end of month.
    The delisting and potential deregistration of the Preferred Stock will not have any impact on any of the terms or conditions of the Preferred Stock or the guarantee of National Grid. Such delisting and deregistration will have no impact on any of the other issued and outstanding securities of NMPC or National Grid.
    It is expected that the last day of trading of the Preferred Stock on the NYSE will be 31 December 2023. Following the delisting of the Preferred Stock, NMPC and National Grid also expect to be able to file a Form 15 with the SEC with respect to the Preferred Stock approximately ten days after the filing of the Form 25 in order to deregister the Preferred Stock. It is intended that the Form 25 will be filed on or about 21 December 2023. National Grid does not intend to arrange for listing or registration of the Preferred Stock on another exchange or for quotation in a quotation medium.

    1. Do you think this will get the price to drop any meaningful amount. It doesn’t appear to have done that yet and at this date it seems unlikely.

      1. New, the few who own probably dont know. One of them has less than a million in par value outstanding and the other about $1.5 million. I mean in par dollar value not shares which is considerably less. Plus I remember some of them being a bit in managed preferred funds, so I suspect there isnt a lot of tradeable volume.
        I personally wont be interested until they trade OTC, and at a helluva lot lower price, assuming it even ever does happen as NGG wont make an effort to do this. The sister A was delisted 20 years ago and trades goofy because it has this slapped on it, which other ute OTC issues like the CLP preferreds do not.
        Warning! This security is eligible for Unsolicited Quotes Only
        This stock is not eligible for proprietary broker-dealer quotations. All quotes in this stock reflect unsolicited customer orders. Unsolicited-Only stocks have a higher risk of wider spreads, increased volatility, and price dislocations. Investors may have difficulty selling this stock. An initial review by a broker-dealer under SEC Rule15c2-11 is required for brokers to publish competing quotes and provide continuous market making.

    1. Wow. By my calculations UEPCO yields 6% at $91.67. So many better illiquid buys out there today than what these 470 shares traded for.

      For ejemplo, I bought some CNTHO for $42.25 today, yield ~6.25%)


  17. I just got the following letter regarding SLMNP. They bolded the section that discusses converting the shares to cash. I’m guessing that means they want me to turn in my shares. Unfortunately, I enjoy receiving the 7% yield on my cost so I don’t think that I will.
    December 7, 2023

    Dear Shareholder:

    You are receiving this letter because you hold 6.00% cumulative perpetual convertible special stock (the “Special Stock”) of LyondellBasell Advanced Polymers Inc. (formerly known as A. Schulman, Inc.) (“Schulman”). As previously announced, Schulman merged with a subsidiary of LyondellBasell Industries N.V. (“LYB”) in 2018 (the “Merger”). After consummation of the Merger, the Special Stock remains outstanding, however, Schulman is now a part of LYB’s Advanced Polymer Solutions segment and no longer a stand-alone publicly-traded company. Information for LYB’s Advanced Polymer Solutions segment is publicly available on the LYB investor webpage at and the U.S. Securities
    and Exchange Commission’s website at The CUSIP for the Special Stock is 67054E202.

    The terms of the Special Stock continue to allow you to convert your Special Stock into cash at a price of $848.27 per share of Special Stock. If you would like to convert your Special Stock into cash, please contact your broker.

    You can find additional information relevant to the Special Stock by visiting LYB’s investor webpage, including frequently asked questions under Stock Information (Legacy Investor Information). You or your broker can also reach out to Clayton Huff at LYB if you have any additional questions at or +1 (713) 309-3151.

    David R. Kinney
    Vice President, Investor Relations

    1. I’m sure it’s just an oversight on his part that he didn’t mention that if you “convert your Special Stock into cash at a price of $848.27 per share” you give up any accrued that you’d be entitled to on payment dates, right??? So if you;re interested in putting back your shares, aka “converting,” be sure to time when you do so correctly. Having received this as well, it made me look back at details as provided by Fidelity in the past:

      “Each Convertible Preferred Stock you own is convertible into 19.1113 shares of Shulman A Inc common stock, CUSIP 808194104. Holders who convert will receive a total of $848.2742 per preferred stock
      ($42.00 plus $2.386 ($1.477 distributed on 2/4/19 + $0.909 distributed on
      04/01/19) in place of issuing the CVR per share).
      Below is an example of the payment breakdown for holders who instruct one (1) preferred stock to be converted 1 Pfd share = 19.1113 common share * $42.00 = $802.6746 1 Pfd share = 19.1113 CVR * $2.386 = $45.5996
      Total Cash Payment per Pfd share = $848.2742
      Converting holders who instruct between record date and payable date will
      forfeit their interest.”

    2. I posted the same thing on the Sandbox. I don’t think I will be cashing mine in but thanks anyway Mr. Kinney.

    3. Received the same letter from Mr. Kinney. Don’t think I will trade my shares in either. I like getting the dividend with a nice yield. Can LYB force me to convert to cash?

    1. Ha, that doesnt exactly color me surprised, Pig. You would have been inside my top 3 guesses easily. You must have taken them just a few minutes before the market closed as that is when I saw the ask price jump after the $88.75’s were cleaned out.

      1. Yes was at the close, I think someone else got in also because I was all set to buy every share offered at that price, some went missing lol. As it is, I’m happy with the amount. Can easily get carried away with these things, ha.

        1. Are there any certain utility pref. you stick to? Or do you just load up on any of them if they hit a certain yield that you’re looking for? UEPCO seems to be the highest yielding one from AEE that I can see. I’m wondering if the fact that it would be the first to be called also has something to do with it.

          1. lukky,

            I am a Gridbird disciple, so I do tend to stick the old ute preferreds. Price movement is violent though so I buy to keep them. But, if someone wants to pay much higher, I, like Grid will happy to oblige.
            I’m not convinced this one would be first called, my feeling is, if they are ever called, then the whole lot of the Union issues will be called at once. I have no particular insight as to why I think that, just a gut feeling.

            1. I am only here because of Grid (I continue to lurk every day because there’s so much knowledge). I have been buying all kinds of the old ute preferreds that I intend to keep. The fact that I can get them with 6% interest has had me buying a bunch of them over the last what seems like a year. I just don’t have a particular one I buy and was curious if anyone had an actual strategy

              1. lukkyseven–do you have an of the Connecticut Power and Light issues? Have had orders in since Monday on 2 issues — guess one needs patience (as we know). I haven’t messed with the illiquid utes over my 52 years of investing, but trying to add a few to the mix.

                1. I currently own CNTHO and CNTHP. As I write this and scan my holdings at the same time I also apparently have a small share of CNLTL that I’m underwater on. This kind of thing will motivate me to lower my average cost (though it sometimes makes me miss better yields from the same parent company).

                    1. Page looks good. You don’t have WELPM listed – it has never traded in a range that makes sense to buy (at least not to me) relative to other issues in this category.

                    2. lukkyseven–I am still adding–then to get the detail around each of them is a slow process since most prospectuses are not available.

              2. Lukky, there just arent many left. I personally dont pay any attention to call possibilities being most are all well under par. Your main options are AE and CLP. Mohawk Niagara has 3. I was finally after watching for years get a meager 100 shares of NMPWP (It used to be called NMK-A years ago) The other 2 NMK-C and NMK-B have incredibly miserly yields. None of them trade much, because their really are nothing left of their floats. About 20 years ago NGG had tender offers for all 3 and about 70% of each of there already small floats were tendered for cash. Hawaii Electric has a slew of tiny floats but they are in financial peril over Maui fire lawsuits. So I dont view them as a safe income play. You have NSARO, NSARP, WELPM, and WELPP as options if the prices are right also. A couple other minor issues are there too.
                I did recently buy some trashy PCG preferreds again when they brushed 8%. Still holding a couple series of those. Although most of those are also 70-100 years old they are considerably riskier. Though they do have a very generous regulatory environment (though mitigated by intrusive political environment) and they have that $20 billion plus fire fund now. They also just recently instituted a token penny divi on common. But just getting big rate increases and massive cap ex expansion that rate payers will pay, they werent going to increase the ire with anything material. Plus they are a debt monster.

            2. re: calling them all

              I thought that about Ameren Illinois, too, but a few years ago they selectively called only a few.

              I now own them both & some CL&P pfds, too, at prices low enough that calling them would be a large windfall. But actually, with them all now yielding 6+%, I hope to hold them long term. True swans.


              1. camroc–I haven’t watched them closely but the yield to worst is certainly massive. No reason the think they will call them but one never knows.

                1. Dec 2022 … just a year ago … Indianapolis Power & Light redeemed all their outstanding preferreds including some 4% issues. So it is not unheard of.

          2. Hey Lukky, just catching up. UEPCO wasnt the “best buy” at the moment, but it was one I hadnt had in many years, and isnt easy to snag. And they were just laying there. If I had had more cash instantly available I would have bought more than my 200, before Pig scarfed them up. I was hoping they would survive until today so I could rearrange things. Im just glad I bought mine in the car or he would have taken them too, ha. I own around 10 of the AE subsidiary issues. Trying to keep the cash somewhat split between the 2 subsidiaries so that particular issue helped a little bit in trying to get a better balance. Im not there yet though as I really have a lot more of AI issues just because they were easier to get the past couple months.
            I originally a couple months ago owned a bunch of CLP issues as they were bouncing around and pushing 7% and higher. But then they jumped in prices and Ameren issues were lagging behind the down cycle. So I then rotated into them and presently dont have any CLP issues. I have an overloaded relative ass load of these now.
            Violating a few time honored investing rules, but just like everybody thinks their baby is the prettiest baby, I am biased to my local ute. I dont mind my present overloaded concentration risk. But if Pig dont beat me, and others come with a better buy price, I will rotate around. But things are tightening up in a pretty narrow range now, so collecting more than trading now.
            When I first started a dozen years ago, I told myself if I could ever again get 5% plus longer duration noncallable CDs and 6% plus yield old utes way under par, I would scarf down on them both like a fat man at a buffet. And I have…I still have some “Snipper Bea” cash to trade and such too, such as waiting forever to dig into that delayed FGN issue at $25.22 this week.
            But I also have 30k cash pulled off to side to buy that 1.3% fixed Ibond. Inflation is going to crater next cycle bad, but I dont care as that 1.3% fixed is a 15 year high for monies reserved to preserve safe capital against inflation.

            1. Thanks for all the responses. They’re always appreciated. I personally am just about out of funds to spend. I’d have to find some things to sell in order to have money to spend. I do have a few winners, but again they’re kind of my baby that’s too beautiful. V being my big winner I just can’t see selling even at all time highs as I would prefer to hold them into retirement. SBUX is another consideration to lop off some gains. Wrong forum for such stocks, but I have nothing else to talk about this early in the morning.

    2. Pig, I got my revenge on you today for you stealing the rest of the UEPCO before I could buy more, lol. Snagged just now 200 shares of AILIO at $65 and $65.25 today. 260 bps above 10 year for a fixed QDI ute, and well over 30% below par, Im pleased with that. Although my AI/UE imbalance just got worse. My 50/50 goal is slowly slipping away.

      1. You’re lucky Grid, I was in the process of a root canal, Doc wouldn’t let me pick up my phone to throw a wrench in your plans!!!

  18. Just a heads up for any NSARO holders.

    Someone is bidding $84 for 500 shares of NSARO. By my calc, that’s only a 5.7% yield.

    1. That might very well be the going rate to get someone to sell. It is a A3/BBB+ preferred compared to a PSA-x which is not QDI yet also yields around 5.7%ish currently. So to me.. that bid is not really really strong. A month ago it was.. but not today.

      1. I agree on an absolute basis. Many other better rel value opportunities existed when I posted.

        This includes NSARP at 69 for a yield of 6.2%.
        Also, lots of opportunities in Connecticut light issues at 6%+.

        1. Maine—I bought 566 shares of NSARP today at $69 for a 6.16% yield. A3/BBB+ With a 4.25% coupon, I think it has some decent capital appreciation if rates come down in 2024 or 2025. If they don’t, I can certainly live with the yield. It was trading above $80 in late June.

          1. Randy. I like it. As you know the illiquids tend to lag in big up/ down swing markets, creating opportunities. And then we have some selling for tax reasons.

            I was able to snag some more UEPEP . Some lucky investor was able to snag CNLPL at 51.20 today. Opportunities exist!

            1. Yes, sir. Precisely why I have used the past month or two, to nail down a very high relative amount of these in the 6.5% -6.7% range. They are the perpetual YING to my CD stash of YANG. I have been historically more comfortable in owning these anyways though. Outside of GLP-A, KTN, BANFP, CSWCZ, and a smidge of WAFDP the rest of my preferreds of ute illiquids. Oppps, I did just recently got back into hopefully yet another profitable battle with a chunk of a PCG-B when it was brushing next to 8% the other day.

            2. Maine and gang, also just my opinion, but I personally find CNLPL and CNTHP the least desirable of the illiquid utes. As they have less room to appreciate if market situation would ever present itself, while not providing really any more current yield either. And I also forgot I have a pretty big chunk of KMPB still. But overall I have considerably more in the illiquid ute section.

                1. Randy a lot of it has been I have really racked up the cap gains buying in $17s and selling in $19s over and over. But now with long end dropping its hard to let go of them now. Its present yield is a market ave give or take now being it is 7.8% or so. But in less than 3.5 years when it resets if 5 year is at a lowish 2% it will actually go up in yield to 8.1% at current price. So it provides long term yield protection if rates go down or go up at this price point. And capital appreciation as it approaches reset cannot be discounted either. Its one of my lowest quality issues, but I dont need everything IG.

              1. Grid, I don’t disagree with you regarding the $50 issues. With that said, if a slug is offered at $51 again, I will gladly take it away.

                Like it or not, these tend to have have better support around the $50 level. Plus, CNLPL goes ex in a few days. It’s a similar dynamic with some of the MREIT prefs. AGNCO is a better investment mathematically compared to AGNCN, but AGNCN just has better demand. Same with NLY-I vs. NLY-F.

                Yeah, I have some KMPB. Strange it’s stayed low so long. I think tax loss pressure is real, also for names like WAFDP. I have also re-purchased TFINP. I re-listened to some calls, and got comfortable with the CEOs assessment of their credit risk.. the common has done decent as well.

                I’m honestly most excited about some of the $1000 names that haven’t rallied much. The enbridge and citi isssued a couple months ago, the ~10 year south Jersey, and the floater LNC trading at $66. This forum has been a great resource, appreciate all wisdom from you, Tim, and gang!

                Of course, I am giddy since prefs have been rocking and rolling. Let’s see how long it lasts. I am thinking we have a little more room to run (rates aside) esp if HY spreads continue to stay at current levels or grind lower.


                1. Maine, the largest reason why they have support around their par number is because the original par yield is generally more than 200 bps above the sister issues. With a slight bonus nod from having a tiny edge on a redemption notice.
                  But the reverse works against it for any cap appreciation. My personal angle is cap appreciation potential as I have enough in CD-TIPs-IBonds-TBills that have zero opportunity there. Definitely no hate with it or sis CNTHP as I have owned them off and on for over a decade. I just feel better a opp getting the 4% plus $100 preferreds in the $60s and $70s than ones at par already with same yield. I would suggest limited share count volume with increased interest (or disinterest depending on the issue and or day) dictates the illiquids pricing more. I dont have an extended chart of CNLPL, but I have one on 6.56% sister CNTHP. It was $39.50 in 10/2001 when 10 year was about 4.5%. While UEPEO was about $68 in 10/2001. UEPEO presently is about 4.5% above that price while CNTHP is presently 35% above. This is my reference to better relative value. But with these types you are possibly just a 500 share dump from changing any of these charts appreciably at least near term.
                  I really dont think KMPB is materially mispriced currently in relation to yields of that credit quality at the moment. Markets generally dont give a lot of attention to a reset yield until it gets closer to first call. Especially one that wasnt issued during the bloated Covid period.
                  I can certainly see why you would have interest in the $1000 bond issuances. Im not because I dont want to tie up anymore money in something that I cant get a good quick trade opportunity or look at bad pricing in my account. I was heavily in floaters for last 2 years, and have basically phased out of them over the past month or so. Leaving party a little early, but getting fixed issues at 20 year lows is appealing to me for now. Its the hard choices I have to make being one who has already been unfortunately eliminated for the richest man in the graveyard competition, ha!
                  Plus I have been saving some bucks for IPO flips. The game is back on there for a bit.

                  1. Alabama Power, Entergy, Indianapolis, OCES*, and maybe more I am forgetting prove, some what recently, that these old preferred really do get called and the gains can be obnoxiously good for a preferred if bought way under par. So giving up a tiny bit of yield makes a lot of sense for that lotto shot of a call in my book. Even better if higher yield if possible at that moment in time. Seems to me if they call even one of them the rest are going as well since they are putting in that effort.

                    These are not like PSA preferred where they are very methodical about it. They just kill them all off at once. I have been buying them but not as much as stuff like COF-N at 13ish for a ridiculous 7.8% yield or so recently. Just way too much tempting stuff available over the last couple of months.

                    1. Fc, Tiny half million float UEPCO had about 400 shares pop up today at $88.75 today. I took 200 of them and somebody bought the rest. That yield isnt awe inspiring at 6.2% but 2003 level pricing. Im slowly becoming a 1960s retiree investor. That being 1/3 local utility, 1/3 CDs, and 1/3 Ma Bell. Except I have scratched the Ma Bell part, ha.

            3. Maine, you have me tempted to sell the 75 shares I picked up of NSRO at 65
              Was hoping for another dump to fill out the rest of the GTC

            4. Maine – Don’t forget about UEPEO. It has a much higher call price than UEPEP ($110 vs. $102.47) and has been trading lower lately.

              1. Dick, somebody bought a little bit of UEPEO this morning and next thing it caused a seller to put an ask out for $70, so I pounced on a couple hundo. That was sweet, as it was one of the UE ones I didnt own. Somebody was buying AILLO out of the gate this morning, so I had to buy a hundred at ask at 65.78 before they were gone. I need more of those like a hole in my head. Almost have as much of those as I do AILLN.
                Here was the crazy trade of the day. NMPWP hadnt traded a 100 block since August. I finally got a seller to give me a 100 at $56.50 and instantly right after that someone bought 100 at $65.00. The illiquid illiquids can do that though. $56.50 was only 6.01% which is by far my lowest ute preferred yield. But NMPWP is a triplet sister to NMK-B and NMK-C which trade on NYSE and their yields are a ridiculous 4.28% and 5.03%. So 6.01% is not bad compared to that. Oddly enough NGG delisted NMPWP a couple years after acquiring Niagara Mohawk but not the other 2 sisters.

                1. Adventures in illiquid land. What a day! Congrats on your bounty. It is certainly getting weird out there.

                  I was able to get some UEPEO this morning. I also lightened up on UEPEP at 73.45. I need the funds. I don’t have unlimited stashes of cash like you all.

                  1. Maine, I promise I dont own a bank either! I am recycling funds all the time. Uncle Sam loves it, as he is getting a cut of the action too.

                    1. Tell me about it.

                      The ironic part is that I purchase these in taxable accounts to be smart with taxes, yet it doesn’t often work out that way. I guess a short term gain with a tax is better than no gain.
                      One can’t get over confident.. so the plan is always buy and be prepared to hold, not bank on the flip.

                    2. I havent been as tax efficient this year as I typically am. But after the big trading run up this early spring, I overloaded my tax free accounts with the CDs, and short duration stuff ensuring protection of that capital. At the time there was a bit of guessing and I was determined that if I lost anything going forward it was going to come out of taxable to offset the gains. It turned out I was too defensive, but I wont complain as it has been a great year. I just have to share a bit more with Uncle Sam now.
                      I share your same feeling on purchases, comcerning being ready to hold if needed. Alao, it shouldnt be, but I accept the fact investing has a portion of emotion to it. This is why my investing world is typically a small segment. I want to own for the most part issues I implicity trust to be able to pay and not worry about any company solvency or stress issues.

  19. Congrats……to the person who snagged 130 CNTHO at $37.22 today!

    Looks like someone unloaded 2k shares at the market.

    1. Damn – I had from a previous order that partially filled a standing order in for less than 100 shares at a better price that got ignored. Ugh.

          1. I am embarrassed to say I wasn’t able to snag as good a deal as the rest of you. I landed 200 at 38.85

  20. CTA-B is trading at a price point which offers an approx 7% yield for a BBB rated preferred in an industry that differs from the majority available. I just snagged some with a yield a touch above 7%. The OCESP replacement plan is coming along.

    It would be hilarious to have this called at a 120! bucks per share in a couple of years and have the same enjoyable problem of replacing it. It is trading at 64ish. I have to say I have always wondered if that was a typo and it is really 102 for a call. I will have to read up. Either way I would be happy.

    1. fc, I got a little victory lap on this one. I have traded and cross traded with A over time for some small grinds, but was out until a few days ago and thought I was getting a deal at $67 when I reentered when it dropped…Oops, not so much but undeterred I bought today a couple hundred in lower $63s and 100 more at $64. The spread between this and A is really high at the moment. This preferred has been tossed around to a couple variations of the old DuPont over the recent years, so I am not holding my breath for a call.

      1. It is an oddball duo with chances to buy/sell. The low today for B was 63ish and the high 69ish. Not sure what is going on but I am tempted to slap an ask of 69 on these new shares. I just tend not to trade unless it is a large pay day. Maybe I should reconsider that. Either way I am accumulating B below 64 at this stage so selling will be difficult for me to do when I want more.

        As for a call.. who thought Ocean Spray would ever redeem a 4% preferred? Not I. One never knows. But yes, I agree with your sentiment. A call is very unlikely.

        1. well Grid not as good a deal, but yesterday I snagged a couple 100 of the CNLPL at 50.95

        2. I owned OCESP for years… a cost of about $14. Never thought it’d get redeemed and most likely would find a way to go bankrupt. It was a welcome sign to see it get redeemed. In agreement on the Corteva B…..foolishly cheap, especially after the run-up of a few years ago to $108- $109.

    1. Same. The question is that OCESP was a pretty safe 7% I was getting on the price paid for the shares so what do I replace it with? Use all the money and go into something with even less risk yet still generating more income or try to replace it with something around 7%. No idea at the moment. Trying to figure it out. Or just toss the cash in a >4% online savings account or money market until an opportunity comes up.

      Offhand I cannot think of a QDI preferred share that offers 7% with the same low risk profile as OCESP. Maybe CHS but I am already in that and not sure I want to make the position even larger. Many of the ills we discuss here, the high quality ones, have not quite routinely broken the 7% barrier where one can make a purchase at anytime.

        1. I cannot buy SLMNP in my accounts as it is expert market. I imagine if I switched brokers I “might” be able to as it seems it is somewhat special compared to others. Either way I already own some and since dark I am ok with what I have.

        1. Ken,

          Great minds think alike. Added another 100 shares today of it. I also concluded it was a decent purchase. I was thinking to add more but there is no rush to buy it all in one shot.

  21. Interest on my SJI bonds showed up today plus a couple more interest and dividends from end of qtr. Accounts are still down about 1-1/2% in value but its keeping my wife happy as long as income comes in and she can still plan her trips to see the gg kids and do her sister cruises.

  22. Got this back from Eversource today:

    Hello xxxxx
    This filing effectively reduced some additional disclosure requirements for the CL&P preferred shares that will no longer be required starting in 2024. Your preferred shares are still able to be publicly traded. Neither the CL&P nor the NSTAR Electric preferred shares will be going dark.

    The reduced disclosure requirements are related to management composition and compensation that is currently (and will continue to be) included in our annual proxy statement filing. There will be no impact on the ability to trade any of our preferred securities.

    Melissa Cameron
    Program Manager, Investor Relations
    Eversource Energy
    247 Station Drive, Westwood, MA 02090

    So…do we feel lucky? Well, do we? 😉

    1. Well, Harry, we got lucky this time! And I actually FELT unlucky, having just bought some NSARO before finding out about this.

      Camroc, Much appreciated.

      a win for the Punks!

    2. Thanks for making noise at Eversource. One day they’ll wise up and get rid of all of the CL &P and NStar preferred. It is time.

      1. Mitch, I doubt it will happen. Several years ago when the preferreds appeared to be relative expensive cost of capital, Connecticut public service regulators stated in a rate filing case (preferreds are part of setting rates on ROE for company) CLP liked having the preferreds in their cap structure and had no intention of redeeming them. Now that they are relative cheap capital, though irrelevant, it seems less likely.

  23. Grid:

    So now we know why the Connecticut Light & Power issues sold off so much?



    Looks like the whole lot of them are being de-registered and going “dark”.

    I own only two of these God-awful illiquids and I got hit with events in the last week that will likely result in both of them headed to Expert Market.

    Just a cost of doing business in this sector of the preferred universe….but still sucks.

    1. The document that you mentioned had a release date of two weeks ago. So I doubt the sell off is related to that unless it happened in slow motion. I think the 10 year yield going up made more impact.

      1. fc:

        “Happening in slow motion” is the definition of how these stinky illiquid preferreds trade.

        But I shouldn’t complain. The HAWLI preferreds I was buying below $9 when a relentless seller showed up for weeks (and finally finished) all got sold at nice gains (back to $11 on the bid)…and it looks like a quarterly dividend will be received on Monday.

        The illiquids both giveth and they taketh away…..

        1. I am just saying the spike in rates matches up better then a document no one really reads on these preferred from the 1940s and on. Plus the sell off was counted in hundreds of shares. Not 1000s and 1000s like the “big dark event” a while back.

          1. Yeah. I don’t think Eversource will let these go dark.

            I like CNTHP here. getting close to par with a 6.5% yield.

    2. Timeline for Deregistration

      An issuer’s periodic reporting obligations under the Exchange Act will be suspended immediately upon its filing of a certification on Form 15 that it has less than 300 holders of record.13 Deregistration under Section 12(g) will become effective 90 days after filing the Form 15. The SEC has the authority to deny such a request for termination, but has rarely done so. The SEC will not accelerate the 90‑day period.

      Set forth below is a timeline outlining the significant procedural steps in a typical “going dark” transaction for a domestic listed company.

      Day 1:

      The company files written notice of intent to file a Form 25 with the stock exchange pursuant to Rule 12d2-2(c)(2)(ii), issues a press release and files a Form 8-K announcing that it is delisting and “going dark,” and the reasons therefore. This information should also be placed on the company Web site.

      Day 10

      The company files Form 25 with the stock exchange and announces the same.

      Day 11:

      The company stock continues trading or shortly thereafter begins trading in the Pink Sheets.

      Day 20:

      The company files a Form 15 to deregister its shares under the Exchange Act. The Form 15 may not be filed prior to the effective date of the Form 25 (ten days after filing).

      The company issues a press release announcing deregistration.

      Day 100:

      Section 12(b) deregistration becomes effective.

      Day 110:

      The 90‑day period after filing of Form 15 passes making effective the deregistration of the company’s stock under Exchange Act Section 12(g) and the suspension of reporting obligations under Section 15(d), if applicable.

      1. I dont particularly understand details or reasoning. The preferreds were delisted many many moons ago. Yet for some reason they continued to have separate SEC filings.
        After they deregister they could provide financials to OTC. Several dark companies do. Or they may not and they go dark.
        Interestingly Ameren delisted their Union Electric preferreds and delisted AND deregistered only this issue in 2007.*&sopt=symbol
        It quit trading I presume as I dont remember it. 3 years later this deregistered issue was redeemed by Ameren in 2010 after it was merged into what is now Ameren Illinois.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *