I will be adding a new link titled “Sandbox” in the right hand menu.
That link will get you to this page.
I had originally set up the “Reader Initiated Alert” page for ‘alerts’. I was thinking this, for instance, might be when a preferred stock is undergoing a temporary selloff and someone wants to let the population know about it quickly. Of course we all (including me) use the ‘alert’ page for general messaging.
I am requesting that we start using the Sandbox page for all general talk, and try to preserve the ‘alerts’ page for ‘alerts’.
I have had a screen up on one of my monitors all week where I see all comments – no matter where they are posted–it is a great page and I wish everyone had a page like that–believe me we all benefit from all the knowledge being shared. I don’t want to stifle any of the exchange of knowledge, but hope to get things a bit better organized by adding the Sandbox page.
Weekly chart of NMFC common. Not a good look.
https://www.tradingview.com/x/AGfET8yA/
Kind of rolling over – I never hold common shares in BDCs.
FTAIN was one of 18 positions I moved from Fidelity to Schwab. Someone was bidding 26.30 just now so I hit the bid and sold 800 shares at 26.30. Fido limit was 200 shares with sometimes an hour between a completed order and being able to place another order in the same security. They must have experienced some kind of fraud to undertake such draconian measures.
LYB news. Stock hit a 52 week low today. Glad I don’t own.
Another Major U.S. Oil Refinery Shutting Down as Lyondell Confirms Houston Closure 11/2/2024
(Reuters) — Chemical maker LyondellBasell Industries on Friday detailed its long-announced plan to permanently shutter its 263,776 barrel-per-day (bpd) Houston oil refinery in the first quarter of 2025.
The planned closing marks the latest in a wave of U.S. refinery closures as motor fuel demand is expected to peak this decade and decline under pressure from renewable fuels and electric vehicles.
In January, one of the facility’s crude distillation units (CDU) and coker production train will shut, Lyondell refining chief Kim Foley told analysts on a call to discuss third-quarter results.
In February, the second CDU-coker production train, which supplies the gasoline-producing fluidic catalytic cracker (FCC) and ancillary units, will shut, ending motor fuel production, Foley said.
For the fourth quarter of this year, Lyondell plans to run the refinery at 90% of its capacity.
Lyondell originally planned to shutter the Houston refinery in 2023, but extended its life due to strong fuel margins.
TNTowanda, I don’t own the common stock and this might be a market over reaction to closure news on the Houston refinery. But, I am looking at its preferred that is illiquid and appears to be non-callable and has no maturity — SLMNP 6%. LYB has huge revenue and lots of FCF.
Shutting down the Houston refinery has been in the planning for years and LYB has significant international operations.
BANC 05990kac0 due 4/1/25 YTM 6.882 at current offer
I just noticed it and have not done any research but seems to be trading around the offer. I see 5 mill at IB
LT-
The YTM math works. Schwab couldn’t get me an offer.
I only see the offer at IB. Not on Fido or Schwab, so I assume it’s not in their inventory. They don’t see the entire market.
Quite a few trades in Sept/Oct
on vang. only 2 available.
I have written Fidelity regarding my (and our collective) concerns about its program trading volume restrictions. I shared my concerns and said that if the restriction continues, I will have no choice but to move to IBKR. I also warned that many others are facing the same decision.
I requested a response.
Who did you write to?
I have an ongoing series of conversations ny email with a person in the executive office who was able to get my box spreads marked reasonably correctly and dealt with a few other issues.
“My Wealth Advisor”
She is the Regional Head
I suggested that Fidelity generate a release/disclaimer similar to those required to trade Options and “Aggressive” trading strategies.
I’ll post here and under Reader Alerts,
Being locked out or restricted whatever you want to call it.
Fred’s alert that KIM-N is being called , All buys are being blocked. less than 15 min ago it showed 2 bids and now shows 200 plus.
If this was a situation where there was limits on a sell and the market was telling you there is a large move to exit a position, I would hold Fidelity responsible for my losses.
That is the other side of the coin you might mention Westie.
Hello Westie – Great minds think alike. I sent the same to my “wealth advisor” yesterday. Also sent a general inquiry. I’ll post any response I get.
I posted this on the Broker thread Saturday. Given the conversation here, thought I would repost.
Somewhat surprisingly, my complaint to the SEC about Fidelity’s new practice of limiting trading in low volume stocks did elicit a response from Fidelity. Not surprisingly, it was not a satisfying answer. I wonder if Fidelity will now fire me as a customer.
“On behalf of Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC (“FBS” or the “Firm), I am responding to your request dated October 17, 2024, regarding the above-referenced matter. In a submission to your office, an FBS customer, Steven XXX (“Mr. XXX”), expresses displeasure over Firm controls designed to prevent potentially, disruptive, fraudulent, and/or manipulative trading in low volume and/or low-priced securities. We have carefully researched this matter and present our findings below. We can confirm that FBS’s above-mentioned controls, which are not implemented arbitrarily and comply with all laws, regulations and rules — including SEC Rule 15c3-5– applicable to its industry, can, in fact, involve limiting the share quantity of an order for certain low volume and/or low-priced securities if it is greater than a certain average trade size. We respectfully disagree with Mr. XXX’s statement that there is no risk of disruptive, fraudulent, and/or manipulative trading if a limit order is used, but nevertheless thank him for his feedback that he is transferring assets to another brokerage firm that may not employ similar controls. We trust that you find this information responsive to your inquiry; however, should you have any further questions or require any additional information, please contact me directly.”
Sounds like you got the expected corporate CYA for a bad corporate decision. There may be is an SEC rule, but there is no logic behind Fidelity’s 5% limit. It is arbitrary. Fidelity did not address that.
When there are 1,000 shares at the bid price of 18 and 600 shares at the ask price of 19 I find it difficult to understand why I can’t place a limit order to sell 100 shares at the bid price. (actual trade, not hypothetical.), I am not a “potentially, disruptive, fraudulent, and/or manipulative trad(er)” under these circumstances, just an individual wanting to trade in a market where the prices were established by other parties. Imagine going into a grocery where everybody else can buy a dozen eggs, but they limit you to buying one at a time.
This scope of this rule is far worse than I imagined – it covers more than preferreds. I did a test and found I was locked out of selling a small public ute and an even an ETF.
Locking individuals out while permitting institutions is market manipulation plain and simple. I suspect this ends up in litigation. JMO. DYODD.
If you bank at Fidelity, it might be best to exit the low volume shares. I don’t know that I am comfortable not being able to sell if I need to.
I also notified them that I am moving “market access” restricted stocks to Schwab
Why are long-end treasury yields rising? Rather than choose among the current theories, the right answer might be check all that apply. Anyway, by Friday there’ll be data from the election and FOMC decision (and the market’s reaction) to consider.
What are the consequences of higher long yields? One that comes to mind is multiple compression, which could be offered as an explanation for recent weakness in stock indexes. Another is higher mortgage rates.
Scroll down to the chart on this page https://www.chathamfinancial.com/technology/us-forward-curves and turn on the 5- and 10-year treasury forward curves, which have changed dramatically from a few weeks back. Instead of dropping to around 3.5%, the 5-year curve has already bottomed followed by a steady rise. That’s a radical shift in rate outlook by traders, and it changes the picture for 5-year reset preferreds. The level of uncertainty seems high.
Here’s a question about the Market Access rules: Are institutions held to the same constraints on order placement as us “small investors”. If they are, then I am a slight bit more comfortable with the rules. Otherwise this is just a debacle in the making, just like the Expert Market rules nonsense.
Opening this question up a little wider, does anyone know what exact SEC regulation the brokerages are claiming requires them to refuse “large” orders of illiquid stocks? Or a search term that would lead me there? I’ve tried searching for a regulation that would apply here, but I’m not finding anything.
At this point I’m suspecting that it’s just individual rules at individual brokerages, rather than a specific rule that they are all following. It seems unlikely that the SEC actually has a rule that would prohibit an individual investor from placing a limit sell order on stock that they are already holding and legally able to sell.
There is no such SEC rule – Fidelity is just making shit up. Maybe ask them to cite the code section of the ‘34 or ‘40 act next time they give you that bunk.
Etrade has no such restrictions, fyi, and their software is decent.
Rocky,
What constraints are you referring to (my poor grammar, sorry)?
The access you have depends somewhat on your software, but also on your relationship with your clearing firm ( a retail broker in your case, most likely)
Can you hit a hot key and send an order to a floor broker? Pick up the phone and call a trader on the floor of a stock, options or futures exchange? Trade without regard to the amount of money presently in your account?
Place orders that INCREASE a published imbalance at the close of trading and do so via a floor broker right up until a few seconds from the close of trading? For that matter, are you even aware that order imbalances are published for both the open and close as well as likely auction prices, and that these are a huge source of profitability?
OTOH some institutions lack of care regarding “access” makes for others’ opportunities.
I can think of perhaps 50+ “advantages” an institution might have, but i’m not at all sure what you mean by access.
Best
Hello LT – As many others here have noted, Fidelity has instituted order restrictions so that you can only put in an order for a percentage of the average trading volume (day or hour or ?) for a given security. So if you have 2000 shares to sell, well you are just plain out of luck. Sometimes even placing an order to sell 100 shares will get rejected. I would bet institutions have no such restrictions, but that is why I asked the question above.
Two weeks ago I wanted to sell 2000 shares of a preferred. There was 1900 on the bid and most of my orders, even for 100 shares, were rejected. After getting a few hundred sold, I finally gave up and called Fidelity. It took a couple minutes to explain to them what was going on and they had to put me on hold to figure out what to do. They ended up placing an order which finally filled. Can you imagine what would happen if you needed to trade and called Fidelity and had to wait on hold for 30 minutes???
Ah, ok. That’s Fidelity being Fidelity. This is the type of limitation they are inviting others without that limitation to take advantage of ( yeah, I ended a sentence with a preposition, i know). It’s like not having access to the expert market, or not receiving imbalance information.
Is the Justin Bank Preferred Portfolio- (JBPP) at risk?. On 5/22/23, I started the JBPP portfolio based on the excellent suggestion from Justin. Banks and their preferreds/babys were beaten down in part due to the failure of Silicon Valley Bank. Several other banks were viewed as being on the ropes and headed for imminent failure. I used a methodology to buy one preferred share/baby bond from each of 48 banks. The thought was that one or more might fail, hence go to zero, but overall, the survivors would bounce back and outperform the broader preferred sector.
JBPP is up +22.5% (IRR) compared to the largest preferred ETF (PFF) which is up +12.5% (IRR) from 5/22/23 through 11/1/24. JBPP’s peak value was on 10/16/24 and has fallen -3.0% since then.
An article came out last week that questions the survivability of small banks. It was specifically focused on the largest bank in Wisconsin, Associated Bank (ASB), but is pertinent to many of the banks whose preferreds are in JBPP. JBPP holds 1.12 shares of ASB-F. The article highlights two issues which have been well telegraphed in the last few years:
1) Banks hold loans on commercial real estate, particularly office buildings, where the underlying asset has fallen below the loan balance. If/when the property defaults, the bank might suffer a loss
2) Banks hold loans/mortgages written with low coupon interest rates. When rates increased, the value of this paper fell, impairing the net equity of the bank.
Nothing new there. What is new, at least to me is the graph labelled:
“Bank Non-Owner Occupied, Nonfarm Nonresidential Loan Past-Due and Nonaccrual Rates by Asset Size.”
The data on the graph makes the point that the largest banks, those with assets > $250 BILLION have been taking write-downs on their commercial loans. But all of the smaller asset banks have been much slower to write down non-performing loans. The article suggests this is because regulators are less demanding of smaller banks, allowing them to keep delusionally high marks on their CRE loans.
If and it is a big if, the smaller banks end up having to write down these loans, it would force some of them into insolvency. Unknowable if/when this might occur. Also, unknowable if the regulators/Fed would allow many of these smaller banks to fail. The asymptotic end result is a handful of Too Big to Fail banks and not much else.
We are taking the Edward J. Smith (Captain of the Titanic) approach with the JBPP: full steam ahead. Icebergs, we ain’t seeing no icebergs.
Link to article:
https://www.maciverinstitute.com/research/wisconsins-biggest-bank-is-worried
Thanks Tex the 2nd. Totally missed the move in banks–was still waiting for a ‘shoe’ to drop which may never happen. Of course there remains some decent 7% buys out there, but they were 8-9% a few months ago.
This is really useful. Thank you.
I see several problems with the article, notably that it seems to mix CRE losses with unrealized losses on securities held. My recollection is the unrealized losses are the result of interest rate moves .
Shouldn’t we be able to get a good picture of individual banks exposure by looking at delinquency data? Anything over 60 days past due would need to be reported delibquent and “ extend and pretend” would not be allowed by regulators if there’s no underlying value.. with a recent appraisal. This is not the 1980’s.
I don’t know anything about Associated but I do know the private reit I am invested in has been borrowing from insurers in the past 2 years, not from banks , and is only buying properties using 100 pct equity or a mix of equity( cash) and operating units in the partnership . So, sources of lending are very limited even for a great borrower with fantastic , experienced, careful management.
I assume there will be bank failures at a higher rate than previously occurred.
I’m actually wondering what the write downs will do to city tax coffers.
I could see a day where some cities default
The games that people play around distressed CRE would make Bernie Madoff jealous.
They can delay things for years on CRE loans that would never pass the smell test in other real estate types like single-family, and they usually just schedule them so they don’t take a massive hit to earnings and kill their capital ratios and get them in trouble with regulators.
Justin, Their earnings were up and they increased their dividend by 4.5% and back in Dec of 2023 they sold almost .8 billion of investment securities they were holding and around 1 Billion of mortgages and unlike the article linked saying only big banks booked losses ASB booked a loss in the 4th qtr of 2023
So everything is looking good on paper as the bank is ending 2024.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/4034630-associated-banc-corp-to-report-q4-net-loss-after-deal-to-sell-securities-mortgage-loans
But 2025 through 2027 is when a lot of commercial real estate loans need to be rolled over and will the assets the borrowers hold have enough value?
One concern that needs to be looked at is the article states over 43% of deposits are uninsured. Being a bank this large I would guess a large portion of that is business deposits like payroll and for operations so not easily broken up into multiple accounts or banks.
Uninsured deposits at large banks are somewhat expected, it is very small banks with large uninsured percentages is a red flag. (especially if they sell brokered CD’s to chase deposits outside of their home area)
And buying my portfolio is probably the only way to time the market, when an entire industry is thrown out with the bath water and the overall industry is sound.
So I am pleasantly surprised that my portfolio of income securities has a one year return that would be a great return even for the S&P 500. I am more surprised PFF returned so much, as we have seen their automatic rebalancing can cause a hit to the return of the portfolio.
Betting on the election:
If I judged a result from the yard sign in my neighborhood in Henderson, NV, Trump would win by a landslide. There’s one Harris sign. That”s at the home Biden visited for a fundraiser 6 months ago.
However, I think the forecasting market is skewed by “market” participants like my neighbors who generally lean well to the right.
There’s definitely not a big edge in what I’m doing Monday, but I’ll be purchasing 100,000 Harris contracts if polymarket and forecastex are in alignment.
However, if polymarket remains well ahead for Trump, I won’t make the bet .
I won’t trade on chain with USDC , but I also don’t want a position that is at a significant deficit to any other market.
I have a number of reasons for my gamble, the largest being the economy is great and fear doesn’t sell as well in a good economy.
Hey Losing trader, I am wondering about posts on here. There is LT and little Lt and you. Are there 3 different people? I know you are a retired Wall St trader but I think from the posts the others are too.
It’s just me being lazy
LOL
LT,
If I read this correctly and you’re using IBKR, that market is open right now (Sunday night) if you want to use it.
This whole thing might be off-topic since it’s not an income security and election trading definitely IS politics, but I picked up some Harris last week when the odds were more favorable. Getting paid 3:2 on a coin flip bet seemed promising.
O.,
There’s an overnight market. I think it’ ripe for catching fat fingers or forced liquidations from overseas traders/ investors.
I’ve made at least $200 so far!!
Recently at Fidelity, it has become difficult to trade low volume issues. I was thinking of opening an IBKR account, but six of my securities are considered micro caps, so I am hesitating on opening an account there. Are there any brokers that do not have restrictions on micro caps. Appreciate any insights.
I’ve had no issues/ restrictions trading w IBKR on low volume names.
Thanks for your help.
I hate IB for other reasons but I don’t think you’ll have a problem trading these. If you post the symbols I’ll check them out for you.
I appreciate your offer, but I think that I will just take the plunge with IBKR. It has become a nightmare at Fidelity. I had never had any issue trading baby bonds, term and regular preferred issues until very recently.
EGS part of the issue is new preferred don’t have a lot of volume say the first six months of being on the market. Makes me wonder if I should be more cautious about buying new issues. This puts self directed investors at Fidelity at a big disadvantage if there is a big market drop and we are back in the dark ages of having to call in and speak to a broker to do a trade in this era of electronic trades that happen at the press of a button.
That was why I moved from T Rowe. As Tex had mentioned, Fidelity seems to be now operating similar to T Rowe whose main business is managing retirement funds for big corporate clients.
It was interesting I called in to sell 1000 shares of HNNAZ, they trader said that he was limited to selling only 50 shares. I then went online and could only trade 50 shares, so I was down to 950. I then tried to sell another 50 shares but the system wouldn’t take it. One day I wasn’t not even able yo sell 1 share as a test, so I still have 950 shares. My main objection is that the fidelity trader did not know about the new rules. In addition it would be nice if Fidelity had sent sent out an email to all accounts about their policy change.
This Market Access rule is set up to keep us “small investors” safe, but as usual it’s doing more harm than good. I am keeping the individual preferreds I own, but as CDs mature I’m moving towards income ETFs. Even ETFs can have flash crashes, but that can be an opportunity.
Will the Dow now become the investment world’s Sports Illustrated?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-replace-intel-dow-jones-212628611.html
Nvidia to take Intel’s spot on Dow Jones Industrial Average. (Reuters) -Intel will be replaced by Nvidia on the blue-chip Dow Jones Industrial Average index after a 25-year run, underscoring the shift in the chipmaking market and marking another setback for the struggling semiconductor firm.
Nvidia will join the index next week along with paint-maker Sherwin-Williams , which will replace Dow, S&P Dow Jones Indices said on Friday.
wow 2WR Sherman Williams replacing Dow the chemical co.; I think Dow Chemical was one of the first stocks I owned when I had my Merrill Lynch ‘Sharebuilder’ account starting out in the markets. Some say the thrown out companies in the DJIA often do better than those put in the average..the ones going in ‘peak’ but the ones thrown out represent value. None of them interest me I guess. Nvidia replacing Intel reminds me in a way of Nucor taking preeminence in steel over oldies like Bethlehem, Inland, etc.
No matter how much they tried to supplant the DJIA w other indexes, S&P, Wilshire 5000, Russell’s .. the Dow gets the headlines. I read where the various Russell indexes will max company representation at 22.5% next year in the rebalance, which still seems like a lot to me.
whats going on anymore!! well…’ask Sherman Williams’.. Bea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zR_zd9eO1o
This chart (no source given) shows that the Fed owns more 10-years now than at the balance sheet peak, despite QT. Has the Fed intentionally been suppressing the 10-year yield?
https://x.com/LukeGromen/status/1852379088167616552
I think it’s easier to see what’s going on with the balance sheet by pulling up FRB release H.4. Everyone has an agenda in reposting stuff to suit a narrative.
If you look at the third or 4th table on H.4 you’ll see the breakdown .
I’m just not seeing anything surprising or nefarious but maybe I’m missing the point. I do that a lot.
The fascinating thing about every stock trade is both the Buyer and the Seller believe they are correct in doing the transaction.
The Buyer believes the Price will go up, the Seller believes it will fall.
One of them is right, the other wrong.
Discussion on this site has centered on “what do I do with my Gains? I do not want to pay the taxes.”
I have shared previously my concern that the market (almost all of them) are over-valued and that a correction downwards is likely.
Given that thinking, I have chosen to Sell 1/3 of my Perpetual Preferred and Common holdings, reducing my Unrealized Gains by 50%. I will probably be giving 25% of those gains to our favorite charity – the government.
My sense is that I am in the minority of my peers on this site.
My sense is that most choose to Hold highly successful investments rather than liquidate and pay the tax.
The fascinating thing about every stock trade is both the Buyer and the Seller believe they are correct in doing the transaction.
The Buyer believes the Price will go up, the Seller believes it will fall.
One of them is right, the other wrong.
Of course a variation on that theme of one right and one wrong on each side of a trade is the old Wall St adage usually attributed to Peter Lynch and mostly used in conjunction with insiders generally: There are many possible reasons for someone [aka an insider] to sell a stock, like possibly wanting to spend the proceeds, but only one reason reason to buy…
Westie,
I believe that you have greatly over simplified the issue of why someone buys or sells a stock. It is not as simple as one expecting the stock to rise or fall.
Buys and sells are also done to: rebalance a portfolio, meet cash flow needs, a perceived better investment opportunity, parking excess cash to collect dividends, etc.
You and I do agree on one issue: I would love to pay 7-figures in federal income tax :).
I like to think this is a website to figure out how to get reliable income. So selling something naturally means buying something else to keep the income flowing. What you are describing is trying to time the market. Sell high, buy low. Nothing wrong with that but you have potential periods of time where your money is not creating income. As I get older I, hopefully, won’t have to sit in front of a PC or on a cell phone checking the market constantly and I just get paid if that is how I wish to live. So to me that is the ideal goal. Maybe see how things are going once a month and collect the checks. Have enough knowledge to reinvest called securities with little effort and keep things rolling until I reach a point I have to let someone else handle it for I or my wife.
fc
Excellent points.
I was particularly struck by your comment about “timing the market.”
Part of my thinking was shaped in the 70’s when inflation reared its ugly head. My father was retired and was living on the income from his tax free municipal bonds. He got seriously jammed in the inflation environment: his income was not enough to pay his bills and his bonds were worth 50 cents on the dollar.
I just have a feeling that relying on a stable of fixed income securities has a uncomfortable amount of risk in today’s volatile environment.
Just as “nobody can time the market” is an accepted truism, so is “the best investment to deal with uncertainty about inflation is a total market stock fund” and “beware of bonds”.
I’m comfortable sitting out the market for the next six month with 20% in cash while the markets sort out the geopolitical and political issues before us.
Appreciated your comments.
Westin,
You’re taking your toys and going home?
Great idea. Kudos to you .
Let me suggest doing something I have not since you have capital:
Position gtc orders to take advantage of a flash crash.
Pick something that shouldn’t go down like BOXX and place an order 10 or 15 pct below the market.
There’s no loss in leaving crazy bids in.
Westie, I think what you’re doing is a moderate approach. Bea said she has been booking all her gains and is up to 50% cash equivalents.
We should learn from others experiences. My father had a small pension from NCR and SS and he had health benefits and a pension with GM. My parents where doing pretty good until 2009 when GM declared bankruptcy. This caused a lot of stress and worry. On top of this the market collapsed and the little they had in a few IRA’s was worth about 30% less.
fc,
this site used to be about income. its become more of a trader site. hence my recent lack of interest. Where is Grid when you need him?
PP, I hear what you mean. But even Grid was a trader. The talk here has probably increased my anxiety level and I suppose I could tune out the noise but I find it has helped me several times weather a storm.
I’m about 3/4 invested and it’s all about the income. I only designate a couple holdings for trades. Actually, I think you have to consider the market and consider what people have been saying about are you comfortable with the market.
Personally our investments are earning more than we need so why am I so heavy in the market? Mainly because the interest I am getting for CD’s and MM funds is less than I like.
There have been several times I changed direction and something I thought I would just hold for the income I sold (traded). For example, it’s anyone’s guess about where rates are headed but it seems that longer term higher rates are here to stay and may even go higher. For quite a while now I have sold out of most of my perpetual preferred or long dated term preferred & ETD because of the uncertainty. Another example is I hold or have held BB of several regional banks expecting to hold to maturity in about 8 to 10 years but I am re-thinking that position. Women are not the only ones allowed to change their minds.
Lately, I have been selling down to a cat-nap point, a slight variation on the old advice to “sell down to a sleeping point.” Selling half positions when in doubt. Then redeploying. Retaining the remainder.
Cash is a good pivot point in times of crisis and at current rates not a bad place to wait in case the world swings out of control. There seems to be a 100% consensus among the financial pundits that everything is just peachy and stocks can only go up up and away. Personally, I follow the advice the head of the Cotton Exchange gave back in 1888 (one of the first investors to call the sleeping point a “rule absolute”): “A reserve force should be maintained and kept…”
“Investors buy securities that appear to offer attractive returns for the risk incurred and sell when the return no longer justifies the risk.” – Seth Klarman
JMO. DYODD
Great comment about the sleeping point. During the financial crisis I received quite a few inquiries from friends I had not heard from in 5, 10, or even 20+ years who knew I traded for a living. Typically, their stocks or etfs were very much “in the hole” and they inquired regarding a course of action… should I sell? was typical.
My response was uniform: If historically you are unconcerned with market moves and now it is causing anxiety, sell enough that it no longer causes anxiety.
if you do not “do” anxiety for a living as I did , you should never let it enter your life in investing.
LT
Your comment echoes a very similar approach from one from one of my most sophisticated financial friends:
“If market moves bother you, you do not have the right allocation.”
I am comfortable with my present allocation regardless of what happens in the future – up or down.
> My response was uniform: If historically you are unconcerned with market moves and now it is causing anxiety, sell enough that it no longer causes anxiety.
Reminds me of the old joke, which I saw in Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, written 100 years ago:
A man goes to his broker friend and says that he has so many cotton futures that he can’t sleep, and asks him what he should do.
“Sell down to the sleeping point,” he replies.
A bit of topic (and you already know this, westie), but you can cut your tax bills by donating some of your appreciated shares to charity.
I just did a donation this morning (market value/share almost $300, cost basis about $13), so it is top of mind.
You get a deduction for market value and never have to pay tax on the gain, plus you can do a little good in the world.
Donation of appreciated assets – best gift in the tax code.
Also (further off topic), if you are looking for a charity that does a lot of good, I really like the Mormon Church’s humanitarian relief program (they like to be called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints nowadays, but I grew up calling them Mormons). https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschrist.org/humanitarian-services/funds/
When we lived in Asia, we did a lot of volunteer work helping with the aftermath of natural disasters (the huge tsunami, earthquakes in Indonesia, Pakistan, China, typhoons in the Philippines, etc.). The Mormons were always among the very first to show up, and they always brought the right “stuff” (food, shelters, medical supplies…). They pre-position containers of supplies all around the world to be able to respond quickly.
They impressed me enough that I did some diligence – 100% of donations go to humanitarian projects (disaster response, clean water, etc.) – their church pays for 100% of the “overhead”. So, they have been on my donation list for decades.
AQN made a new low today in its ongoing decline. The dividend was cut in Sep. Is AQNB going to get dragged down with AQN?
Question on switch from LIBOR to SOFR: what date to use for floating rate preferred stock?
I know with LIBOR there was a whole lot of rigamarole about the LIBOR rate being used was ” 11 am (London time) on the second London business day immediately preceding the first day of the dividend period”. I am not sorry to see all that verbiage go.
But, I have not seen a clear definition of what date to use for the SOFR 3-Month Term Rate. Is it the rate quoted on the first day of the dividend period or some other day? Does that rate vary during the day? If so, is there a specific time that is used? Or do they use a mean value over a time period?
I find it frustrating because when I have tried to calculate the floating rate for a given dividend period for a given preferred stock, I seem to always be off by a few cents.
Help!
HTLFP: I see the 7/15/24 (1st redemption date) to payment on 10/15 was still at the original 7% coupon. Does that follow this wording? :
“The Annual Fixed Dividend Rate will be 7.00% until the first redemption date, then it will be equal to the sum of the five-year treasury rate on the applicable fixed rate calculation date plus 6.675%, resetting every 5 years thereafter on applicable fixed rate calculation date ….”
They should say something like ” 7% until the payment day after 1st redemption date”
And- has anyone seen what happens to HTLFP with the coming merger with UMB? HTLF investor relations has closed their Contact Us page.
The HTLFP call/reset is 7/15/25
To my fellow MSEXP shareholders in the process of converting:
Does everyone else show a cost basis of zero in Broadridge? Ideally, this would reflect the price I paid for MSEXP for tax purposes.
I called Broadridge and they claim they never received the cost basis from my broker. They say this can be resolved by having my broker contact them. This took a 25 minute phone call, so I am hesitant to try to get the two brokers to work together as I am not sure it will be productive.
I think I am resigned to just manually entering this on my tax forms, but wanted to check here, for any other ideas. Thanks.
P.s. MSEX had earnings yesterday and noted 1,849 shares of MSEXP were converted in Q3.
Thanks, Maine!
IB didn’t transmit basis. They don’t have enough employees, is my observation, and they don’t pay the ones they have well enough.
If IB wasn’t my only option to see most of the bond market, I would be gone in a flash.
They did, however , mark my box spreads correctly at year end, whereas Fidelity didn’t. I spent 8 months getting Fidelity to correct it to some approximation of reality
I resigned myself to dealing with MSEX/MSEXP cost basis manually long ago, given the threadbare customer service of IBKR and MSEX seemingly being caught flat-footed by anyone converting this thing.
I’m surprised there were “only” 1,800 shares canceled. That’s a lot of the float, sure, but given the volume I would’ve thought the number to be higher.
O, remember that a lot didn’t hit the 45 days until after 9/30
I represent a good chunk of those 1849 shares but I had to really push to get it moving in the early days. I can imagine 3 months from now it will be double that? I just barely made the cut off to be reported. 9/23 is the date I really got my msex shares I think. I will have to check my cost basis…
As for taxes I will manually adjust it if needed. Should not be too hard if you sell everything at once. Just need to make sure I don’t hit certain tax brackets before selling.
It was nice to see MSEX have a good report.
My cost basis is 0 at broadridge. So I am in the same boat.
Westin,
You’re taking your toys and going home?
Great idea. Kudos to you .
Let me suggest doing something I have not since you have capital:
Position gtc orders to take advantage of a flash crash.
Pick something that shouldn’t go down like BOXX and place an order 10 or 15 pct below the market.
There’s no loss in leaving crazy bids in.
LT
>>There’s no loss in leaving crazy bids in.
I disagree, depending on the brokerage you use.
At Schwab, there is definitely a loss possible as I have to sell shares of my MM to cover a possible trade, leaving approx 4.5% on the table for .01% just to keep an open sell order.
However, over at Fidelity, with automatic sweeps, I think this is a good and viable option, where I always have a couple GTC stink bids in.
Also, as Charles M. has asked, Are LT, lt, and losingtrader all one in the same, or do we have 3 different posters here? I think it would be helpful if we could all be consistent in using the same handle on here.
*** “buy” order. Edit function not working for some reason…
OT – if anyone’s up at 10:30pm on Halloween, go over to CME Fed Watch and take a quick screen shot. The predicted rate bar code for the November 7 meeting is at 100% chance of 600-625 target rate. Likewise the printed table. Same for December, January and March. LOL. Time to shop for CDs?
JMO. DYODD.
Can someone please point me to where I can find the forthcoming SGOV dividend amount ? TIA
On the iShare website has a link to a pdf for the schedule:
https://www.ishares.com/us/literature/shareholder-letters/isharesandblackrocketfsdistributionschedule.pdf
Looks like ex and record date are 1 Nov with pay date 6 Nov.
Re todays Core PCE release for Sept Data…. at 2.70% YOY unchg from Aug.
On CNBC , Glenn Hutchins of North Point Capital said he also looks closely at the Qtr vs Qtr ##’s ….. i have not looked at that part of the release data.
Today’s 2024 Qtr3 / Qtr2 was +2.20% Q3 vs Q2
Prior Qtr ## was Qtr2 / Qtr1 +2.80%
The Qtr1 ## the site shows +3.70%
. . . Data seems to be part of U. Bureau of Econ Analysis report
Regarding my SMCI short and hold bet:
I cannot see how SMCI can hire a new accounting firm AND develop the plan needed by Nov 16 to avoid delisting.
My understanding is this means the stock is removed from the SP 500 .
Anyone with a diff understanding of delisting?
I cannot figure out where this trades if removed from the 500 and it goes to the pinks or worse, but it seems worthy of the spec bet I made yesterday.
losingtrader-
And how do they expect to raise $40B to buy more Bitcoin??
Gary – Different company. That’s MSTR.
I think it’s totally reasonable to short SMCI, it’s trash, but I’m not sure about delisting. The exchanges will generally bend over backwards to give companies more time to comply.
Yesterday Cramer glommed onto my bandwagon and announced the stock will likely be delisted.
This is one of those stocks that will rally if the market gets hit hard. so it could fly up in your face on Wednesday if we tank.
Anyone with excellent knowledge of their state electorate wishing to opine on any of the state election bets on IB forecast trader?
I can’t see the R winning in Nevada over the incumbent D . The TV ads seem a battle of $$$ as every ad is an “anti” ad against the other candidate and they run in succession! It’s funny to see this every morning.
In the end I think the incumbent D wins not just due to incumbency , rather because Nevada voters will weigh all of the issues carefully then vote for the better looking candidate.
I’ve purchased 1000 contracts on the D at 70 cts. I can’t decide if this is a better bet than a football game, but at least the loss is deductible!
The strength of III is the diversity of knowledge and experience of those who share their thoughts.
Following is a view for everyone to consider when thinking about their investing strategy.
Most of us are strongly committed to interest-dependent vehicles.
I myself have 40% in a T-Bill/CD ladder of 15 months duration, 25% in BB’s with maturities of 2030 and below; and the remaining 35% in common and preferreds.
I have been thinking more and more about:
There is at least a 50% possibility that T will be our next President.
How will that affect our investments?
T has said he will appoint M as the head of his “government efficiency” effort.
M has demonstrated already with Twitter his approach.
Department of Education; EPA; price support programs for agriculture; etc etc.
All cut.
No concern about impact.
Groundwork has been laid to facilitate presidential ability to enforce these changes.
Whether or not all the above actually gets done as suggested, what will the investing environment for long-term interest rates look like?
Uncertain.
I took advantage of yesterday’s initial positive market start to take my gains on 15% of my perpetual preferreds and commons.
I am choosing taxes over uncertainty.
The above is not meant as a recommendation nor does it ask for a response.
Meant for food for thought.
Your fear is the US government getting more efficient by reducing headcount through the use of technology. Lets look at facts.
As of October 4, 2024, the total number of US government employees was 23.42 million out of 334,914,895 total US population. (7%)
CompTIA State of the Tech Workforce 2024 report indicates a national growth of tech workers of 1.2% this year and estimated 3.4% growth next year.
In reality US Government is not a tech startup or have its culture of problem solving speed. Also some departments handle intricate problems with layers of legal requirements. This has proven to be the achilles heal of automation.
So no twitter effect of 80% reduction in labor force within a month will be realistically possible. With short term hiring of drastically more expensive tech workers who will eventually replace existing workforce as has happened within corporate businesses over the next 1-3years.
In my mind not seeing dark clouds. If anything increased government spending.
micahc
Don’t disagree with your thinking.
BUT
In that scenario, what happens to long term interest rates????
As a retired federal employee, I can tell you the system isn’t designed to be efficient. The number of employees and grades will grow because that’s how upper level management keep their grades, by the number of people they supervise. As a side, when Reagan was asked by a reporter why federal employment had grown during his eight year term, his reply was, “They were here when I got here and they’ll be here when I leave.”
Westie, A common sense approach and well thought out. Whether or not any of these possibilities you mention of paths diverging from the yellow brick road into a corn maze or the forest of sorrows is hard to say.
I’m afraid even your T-bills might be affected as this Greek play of comedy and tragedy unfolds.
A lot of us lately on here have been thinking out loud. I believe it does help with making decisions.
BTY, I don’t take this posting as political. I do read Tim’s postings of Headlines of interest especially as this is earnings season and I want to see how companies are doing with stocks I own or want to own.
As a counterpoint I am pasting here a comment made on the earning call transcript posted over on SA ( one good thing about that site) This is for HTGC
Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Christopher Nolan of Ladenburg Thalmann and Co. Your line is now open.
Christopher Nolan
Hey, guys. Congratulations on the 20. On a broader issue, taxes on unrealized gains is something which has sort of been proposed in all the discussions, in particular in California. And how do you see that impacting your business?
Seth Meyer
So, we would see that as impacting our business no differently than any other investment business. And so I think that we’re going to be dragged along with the tide with that. And therefore, when you look at the relative performance, Chris, I don’t think that it would impact us any more negatively or positively than others.
We do enjoy the fact that we are a pass-through entity. So, keeping in mind that the BDC itself is a RIC. We’re passing on the earnings up into the investors. That profile could be a taxable or tax exempt entity. But we would not see ourselves as disproportionately impacted by that.
Again Westie, not being political, Just showing there are other roads that can be gone down.
M is just trolling y’all. Look at what his Department of Government Efficiency would be called. Look up his past with DOGE. T took the bait, hook line and sinker.
Glad to see the redeemed FTAIP at Fidelity this morning- plus the $0.3799 /sh
But sorry to see it go.
GGN pr B
It looks like some end of month positioning occurred earlier today.
35K shares in these two trades vs ~ 5.3K daily average.
At ~ 10:10 a 25,000 share block crossed @ $ 22.08.
At ~ 10:29 a 10,000 share block crossed @ $ 22.08.
Both had condition codes of Contingent Trade and Qualified Contingent Trade.
Regarding 2WR’s question about WCC/A…. I have a similar dilemma as I have been looking to offload some of my higher cost lots. I have purchased numerous small lots over the past couple of years so I have varying amounts of collected dividends on each lot. On a purely (purchase price) cost basis calculation, I am slightly underwater, but when I figure in the dividends received, I have a net gain.
A couple questions:
It took me considerable time to track each lot and the collected dividends. Is there a cost basis calculator function in either Schwab or Fidelity that accounts for dividends paid? I guess I would call it a modified or adjusted cost basis. I know this could be done on a spreadsheet, but just wondering if there’s already the built in functionality on any of the platforms that I just haven’t found yet.
And then on the tax question (not seeking tax advice), but when a position is sold, cost basis is determined by the purchase price and does not take into account collected dividends? Is that correct? For example, if I purchased 25 shares of WCC/A at $26.50, collected 5 dividends and sold at $26, then I should show a loss of $12.50 (25 x $.50), even though my “adjusted cost basis” is about $23.18 (5 x .664 = $3.32. $26.50 – $3.32 = $23.18)
I have other positions I have struggled with the “when to sell” question. I’ve been looking to increase my cash position, but always reluctant to lock in a “loss” even though I am technically in the gain camp once I figure in collected dividends.
Looking forward to any thoughts / opinions. Thanks
while not a tax accountant I would assume that dividends/interest unless qualified or ROC are taxed as ordinary income
> Is there a cost basis calculator function in either Schwab or Fidelity that accounts for dividends paid?
No, so far as I know, and they *shouldn’t*, because when we’re talking about basis, dividends generally don’t affect it (unless they were a return of capital etc).
As far as I know, your cost basis will be what you paid. It is possible that some of the dividends might be classified as return of capital and that would reduce your cost basis thus giving you a larger tax gain or smaller tax loss when you sell.
Something to think bout if you want to track a cost minus dividends basis for your own personal needs is how taxes impact that.
Let’s say you pay $25 for 1 share of a preferred that yields 4%.
You pay $25 and receive 4 dividends of $.25 each. You might say that your “adjusted basis” is $24.00 (25.00-1.00). Buy is that really the case? If you paid a 10% tax rate on those dividends, then you might say that your “adjusted basis” is $24.10. You gave up $25, received $1 and paid $.10 in taxes.
Just throwing that out there.
Thanks for the replies.
Lots of moving parts for sure.
I don’t generally figure the tax hit as I’m mostly a “buy and hold” in the taxable. But I also have a hard time selling something in the IRA’s that will book a loss of capital.
I’m still torn as with what to do about my WCC-A. I’m just thinking out loud here…. If you’ll indulge me, and maybe check my math and reasoning….
If I hold till redemption (assuming 6/2025) then I’ll get 3 more dividends (.664 x 3 = $1.99) If I sell today at $26, I get $1 over redemption leaving $.99 on the table or $.33 per quarter. $.33 per quarter is about 5.28% yield.
So, if I replace it with something at 5.28%, then I still break even. However, I did not account yet for the $.50 capital loss (original purchase at $26.50), so I really need an additional (.50 / 3 = .17 (rounded) or $.50 per quarter which is an 8% yield.
Now that I have thoroughly confused myself – and probably everyone else on this site, I think the conclusion is that I will be hard pressed to find a replacement of suitable quality and I should just let the position ride. In the off chance that they don’t redeem at first call opportunity, then I’m really missing out.
Un oh! Here it comes again, my broken record plea for using a bond yield calculator such as https://digital.fidelity.com/prgw/digital/priceyieldcalc/ in cases like this because in the example you are using, the correct yield to be comparing is YTC, yet you’re throwing what I would consider to be an adjusted current yield into the mix when you bring up 5.28% yield…. Ignoring for simplification sake the nuance that WCC-A is callable on 6/22/25 but pays quarterly on 6/30 it provides a 5.848% YTC. That’s the number you would want to bear, not necessarily a 5.28% current yield. NOT ignoring the above mentioned nuance, the actual YTC turns out to be 5.689% not 5.848% so that’s what you really would need to beat.
Throwing anything into the calculator with a maturity or highly likely call date used as maturity date will then give you a direct comparison of your alternatives all figured the same way making direct comparison simpler, at least I think simpler, than your manual calculations that as you point out don’t take all appropriate variable into account all at the same time…
Thanks 2WR,
I tried to find a calculator, but one site wanted me to sign up for access, and I couldn’t find anything on Investopedia. So I gave up and tried hand calculations. I didn’t think to look at Fidelity. Duh… But the link takes me to a bond calculator. Anyway, I don’t think I know how to use it because I keep getting errors in the settlement dates and the maturity dates, and different answers whether I use the corporate or the fixed in the drop down, and yields ranging from 4. something all the way to 10. something.
I guess I need to do a little learning how to use these tools.
For example, the settlement date. I purchased 8 different lots. Do I have to calculate the YTC on each lot? Were you using my $26.50 purchase price in your calculations above to get the 5.689%. And what do I put in for maturity date since it’s perpetual? I was also thinking about the nuance between normal pay date and actual maturity date, but chose to ignore it for simplicity sake in my above calculations, but you are correct in that I am over calculating the total dividends still to be paid. I don’t see how to adjust for that in the calculator.
Someone is going to jump in and start talking about XIRR. I remember a discussion a while back about the nuances of some of these calculations, and to be honest, most of it went over my head.
Like I said, I still have lots to learn. Thanks to this site, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I really know.
If you want to PM via SA, wecan exchange email addresses. I don’t mind going step by step to help you but one thing to know right off the bat is, ignoring your personal tax situation for the illustration, your actual purchase price should not have anything to do with your decision to sell… Mr Market doesn’t care what your cost is when you decide if selling today and replacing with something else makes sense. You might, but he doesn’t.. .So its the sale price itself and the purchase price of what you swap into that matter up front. So NO I did not use your cost of 26.5. I used $26, the number you mentioned as the price you;d sell if you sold yesterday and I used 10/31 as settlement date. I’m 2whiteroses on SA as well as here. Also we here on III have proven that XIRR is the same thing as the yields the caclulator comes up with provided you put in identical parameters
Thank you for the offer, but I do not have an SA account or profile.
Maybe I can reach out to Fidelity to get some training on the bond calculator.
As a curiosity question, and I get that Mr. Market doesn’t give one rip about me, but (taxes aside) why should I not be concerned with my original cost basis when making these decisions?
My original foray into investing was through a Motley Fool subscription my dad gave me. Focus was on buy and hold of common stocks. Since finding III a few years ago, I have been shifting my portfolio to the fixed income side of things. Having said that, I guess I understand why my cost basis, while not necessarily irrelevant, is less important than the income calculation regarding YTC. My mind is also stuck on yield on cost as opposed to current yield. I do not always understand the argument to sell something that I bought with a yield of 6%, but the price has appreciated to a 5% yield. Other than locking in the capital gain, I am still receiving a 6% return on the original purchase (cost), am I not? I think this argument mostly applies to perpetuals, where other than a redemption scenario, YTC is rather meaningless. I’m obviously painting with broad strokes here as there are probably dozens, if not hundreds, of nuanced variables involved.
Even if I don’t find all the answers, I appreciate the discussion as it opens my mind to different ways of thinking and, hopefully, leads to better investing decisions in the long run.
Oh, and I’m on Firefox with an ad blocker, so I have never seen the “like” button you refer to.
Mark, I have the same problem. I am looking at yield on cost and what is coming into the piggy bank. Good example for me is I bought some BHFAM around an average cost of $15.45 at 4-5/8% is it ever going to get back to $25.00 par value? I doubt it. But the 7% return on cost is nice. But I did recently sell half the holding in my wife’s account and moved it over a preferred with a similar 7% yield and booked the capitol gain. A different example would be where Dick pointed out to me I had several stocks over par that even though the yield on cost was 7% let’s say it had increased in value about a 1.00 and would only yield 6% it bought now at that price.
My dilemma now is do I keep it for my 7% YOC or book the capital gain or risk losing the unrealized capital gain?
My apology if I implied you shouldn’t take your own tax circumstances into account… Of course you should, but it shouldn’t be a part of your apples to apples comparison on whether or not to swap out of something you own into something you’re going to own. So if you’re working on a taxable account, you start with the Fido calculated YTC then personally decide how much your own personal taxes consequences negatively impacts the sterile non personalized number
SHORT and hold: SMCI
In the 25 years I was a professional trader I never saw such a stunning auditor resignation. In fact, I only recall withdrawing from one large client when I worked for a KPMG predecessor. We liked the fees and charging 5x what we paid our employees for an effectively hourly rate. To announce you’ve lost confidence in management’s representations and don’t trust the Board is truly incredible.
Kudos to the requirement this stuff has to be disclosed because I think this is the type of situation where some fund and pension investment committees
have to meet to decide to sell, so this continues to drop. I’m going to just guess this is a chap 11 eventually. Yes, it’s a wild spec but I’ll play it.
LT -If you want to look at dubious auditing, look at FTEL.
https://www.bleeckerstreetresearch.com/research/ftel
I see Saba (Boaz Weinstein ) has upped his stake in General American Investors fund, GAM, the equity closed end fund (in biz since 1927).. of course like me many have the 5.95% solid pfd of this fund where there is modest leverage and a managed equity portfolio. His ‘strategy’ is to take funds w bid discounts to NAV and push them to buy back stock, increase distributions or even convert to ETFs to narrow/eliminate the big discounts. I suspect w many long term stock positions up quite a bit in GAM the bulk of the discount represents potential cost of capital gains tax if sold. They distribute some gains and income 1x a year. Anyway this does not change the quality of the pfd unless for some reason which is unlikely he gets them to convert to an etf or liquidate. just FYI stuff, keeping my 1% allocation to the GAM-B’s where my basis is 24.50. Bea
https://www.cefconnect.com/fund/GAM
I’ve never fully understood that argument about the discount to NAV being justifiable because of the cost of capital gains tax if sold…. I get the concept, but the argument seems to come into play selectively when I would think it should apply for a wide group of CEFs…. But that’s an aside I guess…. But speaking of that and of Boaz whom I follow, I’ve wondered why CET doesn’t become a target of guys like him or Phil Goldstein…. It’s pretty much the same size as GAM, doesn’t have any debt I don’t think, and it trades at a 17% discount to NAV… What makes it particularly interesting is that 24% of its portfolio is tied up in a private auto insurer in the Northeast called The Plymouth Rock Group. They’ve owned in since 1982 and the imbedded cap gains is staggering. So the same argument would apply… But what makes this all the more interesting is that CET discounts its own valuation of Plymouth Rock (based on Plymouth’s number) by an additional 25% because of the percentage size of their ownership…… So the 17% discount to NAV is materially greater than that due to the double discounting surrounding Plymouth Rock…. So that question becomes what would happen to CET’s valuation if Plymouth went public and is there a catalyst for that to happen? I’ve thought there was because the management/founder of Plymouth is up there in age and you would think he’d have an eye toward some estate planning moves regarding the company….. Keep in mind, I’ve had this theory for a long time now without ever any signs of catalyst actually showing up. So shouldn’t this all appeal to a Boaz or Phil Goldstein kind of activist? Apologies for my meanderings but your post reminded me of the CET situation..
yes 2WR I agree, but Mr Boaz and others are moving around the CEF space and maybe he gets to CET! wouldn’t surprise me..he needs pressure and headlines to hit the CEFs he targets and of course that means Blackrock, Nuveen etc. I mean he even went after ASA the gold fund, some are ‘easy pickens’ some are ‘headline makers’ and others he will get to them I feel! Oh well no positions, I have been following CEFs since Thomas Herzfeld days when I subscribed to his now closed Newsletter and I agree w Thomas they are all trades.
Heused to go on Nightly Business Report ea Dec. w Paul Kangas and outline tax loss sellers he felt would bounce. I guess Stanford Chemist on SA is the ‘best’ analyst now w Nick doing most of the ‘talking’ w articles/comments. I guess I was just too busy w other areas of the market to get into CEFs much. The CEF market has shrunk so much w many merging, closing, going to ETF and no real new issues.
Plymouth Rock, yes, regional P&C co I often wonder how they’d monetize that I remember right before the Great Financial Crisis 2008, Liberty Mutual (LiMu Emu!) was going to demutualize and boy that got pulled of course and then never came up again.. I guess Stone is 76 now and the Northeast auto/homeowners/renters/condo states could be attractive to a buyer? if he sold. Some CEFs just always had and will have big discounts to NAV and Boazy will move from one to another imo. Bea
2WR/Bea,
Decent position in CET for a very long time. I think in concert with ADX, my favorite position. Ironically I think it holds the key stat in my portfolio of never having been sold.
Bea – You probably nailed it as to why Boaz hasn’t bothered with CET…. I bet it would be tough to generate headlines on them given how they do all they can to stay out of the limelight as it is. Hard to get an uproar from the silent majority…… Gee I didn’t realize they reach as far as Steeler Country…. and I always thought of them as an auto insurance specialist, but you’re right P&C applies……
Some III’ers might not now about Boaz’s background. He is the one that exposed the Morgan Stanley “London Whale” fiasco. Long story short, he presented it at a conference and MS exec’s in the audience where SHOCKED to learn about it. They quickly approached him to settle the trade, with something like a $ 1 Billion profit to him
He is also famous for being a highly ranked chess player. One famous match he played with his back to the chess board, so he had to mentally remember where all of the pieces were. He checkmated the opponent.
Bottom line: he is extremely smart, even by Wall Street standards. I would NOT count him out on any investment position he takes.
the staid CEF industry was ripe for the picking by Boaz so yes, he is ‘smart’ and like all segments/products the public gets sold complacency breeds opportunity for sure. They deserved it imo, that said the overdistributing of income + capital by some of them is a recipe for long term disaster, hopefully investors- and most here are astute enough to understand- that long term that could be a real issue. If it works to narrow discounts temporarily to NAV that were excessive, fine, as long as it goes back to a reasonable distribution plan. That remains to be seen. What will probably happen for most is the dist will be cut and they get put back in the penalty box yet again.. and big discounts losing investor ‘trust’. Good for Boaz figuring this out for his and his client/shareholder’s benefit. Long term? TBD. BTW Thomas Herzfeld showed how to profit on these dislocations decades ago, guessing some ‘forgot’ collecting their fees for AUM! Bea
Reuters- CRE/ office loans continue to be problem children; Bea https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/deteriorating-office-loans-stress-us-regional-banks-cre-portfolios-2024-10-29/
re Azure’s note on commodities, Palladium/ of course Norilsk is the big RU producer of nickel, palladium (worlds largest) and related metals ramping up 2025 production, although US threatening sanctions, IN and CN will just buy it like the o/ng. Some South Afr. countries have cut back production in Platinum Group Metals (PGMs) .. Sibanye including in Stillwater Montana, Amplats, Implats. “load shedding” (power blackouts) in S. Afr have declined and the big ZA producers have added solar. No positions although Sylvania Platinum is a spec in that space. Iridium is the ‘gem’ of the PGM production, used to harden platinum in quality jewelry (90/10) to better hold stones and the rarest, 6200/oz if you can find some. https://www.luciteria.com/bullion/iridium-9995-1-oz-bar
I don’t do well in that space personally and had losses last year, they have all run up a lot of course. DYODD. Bea
i trade the metals too. It’s a slow profit shooting up every 10 years or so, itherwise mostly rangebiund or dropping. I make small trades on the price swigs along the way picking up some change to soothe my inmpatience, though I miss part of the bug rallies by cashing out some too soon. An interesting sector but more passive than my bread and butter preferreds.
When TELZ is called on 11/8, how much accrued interest will I receive in addition to the $25.75/share price? Will it be from the last ex dividend date of 10/15 or from the last pay date 10/30? Looks like a pretty good way to park cash in the short term.
From last pay date — can’t find specifics, but call date is usually not included in the count. Use 360 days/yr.
But- something weird is always possible 😉