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Sandbox Page

I will be adding a new link titled “Sandbox” in the right hand menu.

That link will get you to this page.

I had originally set up the “Reader Initiated Alert” page for ‘alerts’. I was thinking this, for instance, might be when a preferred stock is undergoing a temporary selloff and someone wants to let the population know about it quickly. Of course we all (including me) use the ‘alert’ page for general messaging.

I am requesting that we start using the Sandbox page for all general talk, and try to preserve the ‘alerts’ page for ‘alerts’.

I have had a screen up on one of my monitors all week where I see all comments – no matter where they are posted–it is a great page and I wish everyone had a page like that–believe me we all benefit from all the knowledge being shared. I don’t want to stifle any of the exchange of knowledge, but hope to get things a bit better organized by adding the Sandbox page.

1,153 thoughts on “Sandbox Page”

  1. Feedbro RSS Users

    Feedbro is no longer supported by chrome. Not sure what happens if I don’t take chrome’s advice to remove it. However, so as not to lose touch with my favorite bond blog if Feedbro does stop working, I added Feedly as a chrome extension. I then added the following link https://innovativeincomeinvestor.com/comments/feed/ to the application and it appears to be working. I am NOT an RSS expert by any stretch of the imagination. Just took a shot and it’s working.

  2. Baby Bonds and Preferreds that RESET –

    Tex2 – I was curious to find out whether or not it’s possible for you to come up with a list of all listed RESET bonds and preferreds (not floaters) ranked by the size of the plus rate at reset? What’s the largest reset rate you can come up with? Looking at ANG-B is what got me thinking….. ANG-B has a staggeringly large reset rate of 5 yr TREAS PLUS 6.297 and it will reset in 9 months…. That means that it came when the 5 Year Treas was at approx .328% (and it would have to be there again for ANG-B to NOT reset at a higher rate than its current 6 5/8%) and was priced at a huge spread, especially when compared to how compressed spreads are today…. And yet it trades at a discount to par and has a CY of about 6.66%. Since it came to market, it’s was UPGRADED by S&P and Fitch in May ’24 to BB+, so spread would theoretically be even less today due to the better credit rating…. The knock on it is that it’s non-cum and is also now part of Brookfield, but it seems cheap to me with YTC at about 8%. . If today was 9/1/25 the issue would reset to 10.727%. And it’s only callable once every 5 years. On the downside if you’re looking for it to get called, ANG did just let ANG-A reset on 12/1 but it’s plus rate is almost 2 points lower.

    Are there any other reset bonds/preferreds out there that have a higher reset rate than this one no matter when they reset?

    1. 2WR, from my spreadsheet (and possibly wrong, DYODD), here are the resets of 6% or more:
      (Issue, reset spread, reset date)
      HTLFP, 6.675%, 7/15/2025
      WTFCP,6.507%,7/15/2025
      ANG-B,6.297%,9/1/2025
      ARGO-A,6.6.712%,9/15/2025
      WSBCP,6.557%,11/15/2025
      SPNT-B,7.298%,2/26/2026
      FTAIN,7.375%,6/15/2026
      TGH-A,6.134%,6/15/2026
      RITM-D,6.223%,11/15/2026
      RWT-A,6.280%,4/15/2028.
      Most of these were found starting at https://innovativeincomeinvestor.com/floating-rate-and-fixed-to-floating-rate-preferred-stocks/

      1. Thanks. RS…. I did look at Tim’s link, but when I did not see ANG-B, I figured there might be more to discover that are missing from that list… but thanks…. Surprisingly, I own 4 on the list, some of which I admit not remembering were resets vs F/F….. Good time to put some more work in on some of these… BTW, WSBCP is one I own and I added today at 25.10.

      2. WTFCP coupon is 6.875%. I own a lot of it, but definitely believe it will be called.

    2. 2WR, In addition R2S and Sailor posted, I show 24 issues, excluding non-payers, converts and Canadian Dollars. Sorted by highest to lowest margin:

      WCC-A,6/22/25,UST5YR,10.33%
      FTAIN,6/15/26,UST5YR,7.38%
      SPNT-B,2/26/26,UST5YR,7.3%
      TEN-E,5/28/27,?SOFR3,6.88%
      TEN-E,5/28/27,?SOFR3,6.88%
      OCFCP,5/15/25,SOFR3,6.85%
      TECTP,5/15/24,?SOFR3,6.72%
      ARGO-A,9/15/25,UST5YR,6.71%
      HTLFP,7/25/25,UST5YR,6.68%
      VIASP,4/15/22,SOFR3,6.58%
      WSBCP,11/15/25,UST5YR,6.56%
      TEN-F,7/30/28,?SOFR3,6.54%
      WTFCP,7/15/25,UST5YR,6.51%
      MITT-C,9/17/24,?SOFR3,6.48%
      MBNKP,4/1/25,SOFR3,6.46%
      FTAIO,12/15/24,?SOFR3,6.45%
      NYMTM,1/15/25,SOFR3,6.43%
      C-N,10/30/15,SOFR3,6.37%
      GLOP-A,6/15/27,?SOFR3,6.31%
      ANG-B,9/1/25,UST5YR,6.3%
      RWT-A,4/15/28,UST5YR,6.28%
      SEAL-B,10/15/27,?SOFR3,6.24%
      RITM-D,11/15/26,UST5YR,6.22%
      NYMTL,10/15/26,SOFR3,6.13%

      1. Thanks, Tex…. Very helpful…….. I knew there must be more… Funny, I’ve owned WCC-A almost from Day 1 and it’s always been so evident that it would be called on first possible date barring credit issues, that I hadn’t considered it even as a reset for years now. lol.

    3. Here’s my list of current Fixed-Rate-Reset’s that will go to 9% or higher if rates stay the same.

      ANG-B, $24.84, 10.72%, 9/1/25
      ARGO-A, $24.91, 11.14%, 9/15/25
      ATH-C, $25.01, 10.40%, 9/30/25
      BANC-F, $24.63, 9.25%, 9/1/27
      EFC-B, $23.20, 9.42%, 1/30/27
      EFC-C, $25.50, 9.56%, 4/30/28
      FTAIM, $26.33, 9.59%, 6/15/28
      FTAIN, $25.89, 11.81%, 6/15/26
      HTFLP, $25.37, 11.11%, 7/15/25
      MSBIP, $25.05, 9.14%, 9/30/27
      RITM-D, $24.01, 10.65%, 11/15/26
      RWT-A, $25.58, 10.70%, 4/15/28
      SPNT-B, $25.47, 11.72%, 2/26/26
      WCC-A, $25.48, 14.75%, 6/22/25
      WSBCP, $25.21, 10.99%, 11/15/25
      WTFCP, $25.29, 10.94%, 7/15/25

      If you spot errors please tell me because it probably means I’ve got something wrong in my list. And if anyone knows more about these issues, please tell the rest of us!

    4. Was looking thru the “higher spread” resets I own (in addition to positions I took awhile ago in SPNT-B, RWT-A, and RITM-D on the list here) with the reset over 4% above the relevant treasury rate. Here’s what I also own, although purchases 9-12months ago:

      KMPB which looks more interesting now after recent dip, as you are looking at a close to 9.5% reset rate on current cost if 5 year stays constant into 2027: – Kemper Corporation 5.875% Fixed-Rate Reset Junior Subordinated Debentures due 2062, redeemable at the issuer’s option on or after 03/15/2027 at $25 per note plus accrued and unpaid interest, and maturing 03/15/2062.

      Interest distributions of the Annual Fixed Interest Rate will be paid quarterly on 3/15, 6/15, 9/15 & 12/15 to holders of record on 3/1, 6/1, 9/1 & 12/1 or the record date fixed by the board, prior to the payment date (NOTE: the ex-dividend date is one business day prior to the record date). The Annual Fixed Interest Rate will be 5.875% until the first redemption date, then it will be equal to the sum of the U.S Five-Year Treasury Rate on the applicable fixed rate calculation date plus 4.140%, resetting every 5 years thereafter on applicable fixed rate calculation date (see prospectus for more details).

      CODI-B which is QDI and has been recently discussed – Compass Diversified Holdings, 7.875% Series B Fixed-to-Floating Rate Cumulative Preferred Shares, liquidation preference $25 per share, redeemable at the issuer’s option on or after 4/30/2028 at $25 per share plus accrued and unpaid dividends, and with no stated maturity.

      Cumulative distributions of 7.875% per annum ($1.96875 per annum or $0.4921875 per quarter) will be paid quarterly on 1/30, 4/30, 7/30, & 10/30 to holders of record on the record date that will be 1/15, 4/15, 7/15 & 10/15 respectively (NOTE: the ex-dividend date is one business day prior to the record date). From and including 4/30/2028, holders of the shares will be entitled to receive cumulative cash distributions at a floating rate equal to three-month LIBOR plus a spread of 4.985%.

      1. Z—I own KMPB at $23.69—possibly seeing it from an earlier posting by you. It’s a little lower today at $23.14. From my purchase date and cost, the YTC is 8.44% and obviously a little higher now. Ba1/BB Depending on rates in 2 years & 3 months, it might not get called.

  3. The CY (6.3%) of WFC-L (7.5% at 1000 par non-cum, convertible, uncallable, perpetual preferred) is a good reference rate for all long-dated, low credit risk preferreds. As I understand it, the WFC price for conversion at ~210 is too high to be a concern.

    When I look at the CY of other long-dated, low credit risk preferreds, such as the illiquid utilities (CY avg. 6.05%) , I compare to WFC-L. I ask, why should I take 6% on an illiquid when I can have 6.3% with the liquid WFC-L?

    The category of safe perpetual preferreds includes the PSA group, which today have CYs 5.9-6%. They are all callable and present opportunities for buying for the YTC should yields fall. The AGM preferreds, another group often cited for their safety, have CYs 6.3-6.5%.

    What is the CY on your favorite safe preferred?

  4. My FAV for the day is CODI-C. Yields 8.4%, priced at $23.27. Looks like a very solid company with good earnings.

    1. these are QDI as well

      I also own CODI-B which floats in a few years if you have concerns about rates – albeit this floats on the 3month assuming that LIBOR converts to SOFR/etc

      Compass Diversified Holdings, 7.875% Series B Fixed-to-Floating Rate Cumulative Preferred Shares, liquidation preference $25 per share, redeemable at the issuer’s option on or after 4/30/2028 at $25 per share plus accrued and unpaid dividends, and with no stated maturity.

      Cumulative distributions of 7.875% per annum ($1.96875 per annum or $0.4921875 per quarter) will be paid quarterly on 1/30, 4/30, 7/30, & 10/30 to holders of record on the record date that will be 1/15, 4/15, 7/15 & 10/15 respectively (NOTE: the ex-dividend date is one business day prior to the record date). From and including 4/30/2028, holders of the shares will be entitled to receive cumulative cash distributions at a floating rate equal to three-month LIBOR plus a spread of 4.985%

    2. If you like CODI-C, take a look at CODI-B. Similar price, same coupon. The difference is that CODI-B floats with a spread of 4.985% on 4/30/2028. Assuming redemption at $25 per share on 4/30/2028 and a current price of $23.29, I calculate an Internal Rate of Return of 10.68%.

      Full disclosure: I hold a 3/4 position in CODI-B. As always, DYODD, and be very wary of financial advice from retired sailors.

      1. Been adding Enstar FTF 5.75 due 9.1.40 below par. Floats 9.1.25 5yr tsy plus 546.88. Cusip 29360AAA8 fwiw.

      2. Retired Sailor, none of Codi preferred are term they are perpetual. The A is a fixed 7.5% at par and now yielding 8% at 22.45 approx. This has been Callable since July of 2022. At the current cost B is yielding 8.43%
        This may be a good play if people think it will be called in 2028 the share price will rise and you could cash out and take the profit on any capital appreciation. How much is CODI paying out on the common and the 3 preferred out of FCF and EBITA ?
        7 bonds outstanding with 1.7 billion in debt and 68 million in cash with 3 of the bonds due in 2026 paying 8% interest rated B+
        This is not counting what they pay out on the common and the preferred.

        1. Charles, how do you infer that I think CODI-B is a term issue? Above, I wrote “… CODI-B floats with a spread of 4.985% on 4/30/2028.”

          Rather, one of two things happens. If CODI doesn’t redeem the issue on 4/30/2028, the holder is “stuck” with a floater yielding Libor plus 4.985%. If you’re worried about the LIBOR transition, see page S-34 of the prospectus: “Notwithstanding the foregoing, if we determine on the relevant distribution determination date that the LIBOR base rate has been discontinued, then we will appoint a calculation agent and the calculation agent will consult with an investment bank of national standing to determine whether there is an industry accepted substitute or successor base rate to Three-Month LIBOR.”
          If CODI does redeem the issue on 4/30/2028, the holder (assuming the issue is purchased today at $23.29) will have earned an annualized return of 10.68%.

          To me, this makes CODI-B more attractive than CODI-A at a similar price. Your mileage may vary.

          Cheers,

          Retired Sailor

          1. My apologies sir. I didn’t mean that you implied it would be called instead of going to a floating rate. I myself have owned CODI preferred in the past but don’t own now.
            My flavor of the day was I bought more SPMA today at 24.55 ex-dividend. The 1st tranche I bought at 24.75 so I am even with the first dividend. Monthly payer and 1st call in 2 yrs and terms out in 5yrs.
            I agree with Tim this is from SPMC an unknown company in the CEF universe actually Quantum says it is an CEF ETF externally managed.
            They only issued 2 mil shares and I am collecting 8% to balance out an investment grade issue paying 6% I don’t believe Egan’s BBB rating so only time will tell.
            They have the standard levers to pull if they get in trouble. Raise more capital by selling more common, reducing the common dividend that they just raised, even reducing or waiving the external management fees.

          2. Retired Sailor,
            Well stated. I would add that based on the forward curve for the SOFR 3 month, if not called on 4/30/2028, your yield on the CODI-B present price will then be about 9.8%.

            1. As an additional plus, all three CODI preferreds are qualified dividends. In my relatively small income that means no federal tax at all!

    3. jack-
      Seems like they could call the ‘A’ – well past call. The preferreds could easily retrace another $ or more from the look of the charts.
      Common is down 1/3 in 3 yrs. But- an interesting PE company,

      1. The stock is selling below the call price. I doubt they will call it unless interest rates fall enough to make it worth their while. If they do, I get a capital gain. Please, Brer Fox, don’t throw me in the briar patch!

        1. It should have read- …”could HAVE called it….” It was 25 or more mid aug- mid sep. Guess it’s safe even at 25.

    4. i like it too; best in the suite imho; been accumulating a position ;
      added 100sh today at 23.30
      a relatively safe 8.45% yield which is my target 8-9%

  5. Well shiver me timbers, One of my bids on a very Ill liquid filled today. Total volume is showing today as 800+ shares. So I quickly punched in orders for another 750 shares and all went through with no pop ups and no calling in.

  6. The pre-FOMC meeting narrative that another rate cut would goose treasury yields has come to pass. The 10-year yield, currently 4.56%, has broken above the Nov. high and could be headed to the Oct 2023 high at 5%.

    I watch 30-year bond futures, which are down again despite being very oversold. Price is approaching the April low and that looks like a good place for a bounce after one more day like this.

    Just guessing. I don’t know what’s going to happen. Still holding my cash horde.

    1. Update: The bounce in 30-year bond futures might have started. I have no guess at where it goes.

  7. Nice…. CRAZYTIME has begun before 1/20 as R’s reverse their agreement with D’s and shut down the government under pressure from Musk and Trump. R’s are being told not to leave Mr. Trump without a debt ceiling extension , but at the same time reduce spending …

    Trump threatens to “ primary “ Congressmen.
    If you thought this would lower rates, you may be surprised.
    D’s sure won’t sign a new agreement with whatever Trump wants after having made one already.
    I’m surprised at only one thing: muted response by stock and bond futures thus far

    1. In addition to watching 2’s to 10’s …. Ex F & E PCE …. term SOFR # …
      the back / forth between the “R” and “D” will keep us on alert.
      The active’s ( or about to be ) may be interesting for me.

    2. Lt….. My thoughts? Pull up a nice comfortable chair, get some popcorn and a drink (an adult one possibly), and enjoy the show! Take the opportunity when presented to clean up your portfolio to prepare it for the upcoming chaos (whoops, it has already started!) while the economy / markets adjust to whatever is coming. Just think…. We could be sitting in Congress right now holding plane tickets for going home for the holidays and discovering someone put a lump of coal in our stocking!

      1. DJ, You ever see a lump of coal? a long time ago my local feed store was selling bags of coal for people who were still burning it in wood stoves. Hard to believe that here in Calif.
        A couple of the bags had ripped so I asked if I could snag a lump. It’s become a tradition in my family that occasionally a younger member of the family gets that lump in their stocking. I can think of a certain great grandchild who might get to carry on the tradition this year.

        1. Decades ago I visited a nice, modern home in Newport Beach and was surprised to see coal burning in the fireplace. Clean, no smoke. If you get a lump, burn it.

        2. Yah in some Irish pubs (in Ireland) they still burn coal. And as R2S said, it’s clean and no smoke.

          1. In Pennsylvania near the coal mines, it is not uncommon for people to still heat their homes with coal. Even in my native Connecticut there are people who switched to coal when heating oil got too expensive; because shipping is such a large part of the cost, people will buy a truckload and it will last them a couple of years. There is even an online forum for folks who heat their homes with coal to share tips and tricks, go to coalpail dot com and click “Forum”.

        3. Charles M……. Yes I have seen a lump of coal or two! I grew up in North Carolina in the area where the Piedmont transitions to the Coastal Plain in the heart of tobacco country on one of my Grandfather’s many tobacco farms. The four room farmhouse we lived in probably dated to pre 1900 and was off a long dirt road that ran by my grandparents house about a mile away. It was heated by a nice Ashley wood heater in the kitchen (talk about a hot time in the kitchen!). Yours truly as a little boy got a new red wagon every Christmas under the tree to haul the firewood from the woodpile to a box on the side porch outside the kitchen door. Dad had a bag or two of coal in case the weather was so bad as a reserve fuel. There were three things I promised myself when I grew up……. One, I would never rely on wood heat….. Two, I would never, ever live on a dirt road (Interestingly the year after we moved to town to a better house, the State paved that road!), Three, I would never grow tobacco. I have managed to keep all of those promises! Looking back I had a good childhood. We were definitely not wealthy, but I had great parents and a super set of Grandparents. What we lacked in money was more than made up by them. Money can’t substitute for having great parents……

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